Hey guys,

Before I start the intention of this thread is not to question to choices of the mods which feature comic but more of an opinion gathering thread to know what the community thinks of this topic.

So here goes...

It's been less than a year since I entered web comics & theres always something new you get to learn everyday as I'm sure each of you may have already experienced. I have thoroughly enjoyed my time here on DD & I'm certain I'll continue to do so for much longer. Theres tons of comic with Awesome potential here on DD but I am of the opinion that early comic features do comics a bit of harm more than good.

I've seen a few comics with 15 to 20 pages (less than a single Volume) on DD that have been featured. However I have also noticed that these comics get a large amount of initial views & that suddenly drops in a just under week. It maybe due to slow character development, drawn out story arch structure,the initial art etc.

Once again I respect all the features that are selected by the mods here on Drunkduck , but I'd like to know what opinion you guys hold on early features so that not just us but the mods get a better clarity on the decisions regarding early features. Heres looking forward to know what you guys think about that?

I thought the {usual) minimum was 20pages.

For a comic like recent runaway success modest medusa, it can only have helped. It's a simple and charming comic, it will either grab a reader immediately or turn them off. I don't know if it could be harmful, if people like it they will keep reading, surely it is down to the creator to get peoples attention early on and keep it, the feature just puts more people that direction. The thing is not everyone has the same tastes, some will check out the featured comic, read some and not like it.

I don't read that many featured comics, I look at them all but a lot aren't to my tastes. Others I keep reading for a while and they fizzle out, a few I read religiously.

I wonder if some creators get the boost and think they have a hit and then feel let down when the rush stops, they don't follow it up with other kinds of promotion and allow their readership to decline.

I agree with your points (plus, bigger archives add to the pageview boost), but I don't think it can be helped.

It's hard to say when a comic will end (some of the best are short and sweet and have a conclusion after not much more than 20 pages anyway) or move off of DD, especially some of the really exceptional ones that get featured. A feature has to come while the comic has some momentum. Many creators lose that after a while.

In addition to that, the admins are good comic scouts. I'd say most of the long comics that are "feature-worthy" have already been featured. Maybe not all, but certainly many. If they are good quality comics, the admins have likely already seen them. Coming up with two features a week logically means that mostly relatively new comics get featured.

JazylH
I've seen a few comics with 15 to 20 pages (less than a single Volume) on DD that have been featured. However I have also noticed that these comics get a large amount of initial views & that suddenly drops in a just under week. It maybe due to slow character development, drawn out story arch structure,the initial art etc.

Once again I respect all the features that are selected by the mods here on Drunkduck , but I'd like to know what opinion you guys hold on early features so that not just us but the mods get a better clarity on the decisions regarding early features. Heres looking forward to know what you guys think about that?

OOooooohh this question speaks right to my heart.

This actually happened to us. Death and Fairy was featured around it's twenties (pages wise). We did very well during the first 3 weeks (due to the feature and daily updates) and hit top ten- then it dropped to around 70 something currently.

Let me say firstly thank you so much to the Mods for the feature, and regardless we're extremely pleased at all the nice things they had to say about the comic.

I think there is the element of difficulty in sustaining attention for your comic if it's still in it's early stages. We were still getting used to Drunk Duck at the time and had not been able to set up features such as facebook buttons, blogs, counters, etc. which would have helped a lot in taking advantage of the spike in hits the comic received. Now we know what we would do differently if we were blogged somewhere else and got a second chance.

However, on the plus side- having the Feature early (thanks again to the mods) really got us enthusiastic about the community. I was quite reluctant to post in comments or on the forums at first as I'm quite shy on the internet (very different from real life, I assure you). But me and Oneblackpaper were full of smiles after hearing review on the podcast and it definitely broke the ice on DD for me. Also we still get a lot of comments now and this really helps with motivation.

Anyway, we'll keep working hard :)

For a start I'll just say that JazyH contacted me first to ask me about posting this thread and I said it was fine.
:)

Ok, only the admins -Skoolmunkee and I- do features, not the mods unfortunately. I'd love for more people to do features though, it's not always easy getting a comic that fits all the parameters each week, every week, forever... :(

It's extremely rare that a comic bellow 20 pages gets a feature. There was a recent one that was only about 16 pages, but that was because it was ending there because the author was going to use that as an online sample in order to sell his print version.

Generally being featured means it gives your comic a massive, temporary boost in readership. It's totally up to the authors how they want to handle that. Featuring a comic with a low pagecount (like 20) is done for a few reasons:
- The admin who featured it wants to get it before the other one does! ^-^
- It's just such great work that it really deserves a feature ASAP.
- It's great work and the author is loosing heart and might quit soon...
- We've been really busy and haven't got the time to read a long comic for the feature.
- The story has great potential and it'll be good to get people on board early while it's still picking up.



My own comic (Pinky TA) was featured ages ago when it had about 70 or 80 pages up or something (before I was an admin). By that stage it really wasn't a massive deal to me (to be honest). I was grateful for the acknowledgement mainly. It WOULD have been a bigger deal to me if I'd have had it earlier on though.
Maybe that's just because arrogant, conceited, pricks like me just automatically think we deserve features and awards as soon as we put our work online? I dunno. :)

Anyway, a lot of long time comic makers seem to have a similar reaction- when they get featured later on in their comic's life, there seems to be a bit of "It's about time!" about their reaction. Which is understandable... especially since there are so many comics that ARE featured early on in their lives.

...So I don't have much to offer. I suppose the experience is different for everyone.

ozoneocean
- The admin who featured it wants to get it before the other one does! ^-^

If I didn't know any better, I'd say you two were in competition with each other. huh!?

Someone
Ok, only the admins -Skoolmunkee and I- do features, not the mods unfortunately. I'd love for more people to do features though, it's not always easy getting a comic that fits all the parameters each week, every week, forever...

couldn't you ask the mods to suggest some? or just get them to do features to?

I'm more curious about what causes the rank drop than anything else. When Super Temps was featured, it hit the #1 spot and held it about a week or so, then dropped... it's currently around #23, #30 overall.

Now in the case of ST, it's only a weekly comic so I figured there was no way for it to hold its rank forever. It has a fairly deep archive, but not to the point of others like Charby. So eventually newcomers slog through the old comics, so thinks normalize.

What I'm curious about is what causes other comics to hold their rank. Most featured comics eventually lose their rank, with the exception of perhaps Demon Eater (deservedly so, I might add -- it's excellent). What's the secret?

Someone
What I'm curious about is what causes other comics to hold their rank.

People coming back I expect.

smkinoshita
What I'm curious about is what causes other comics to hold their rank. Most featured comics eventually lose their rank, with the exception of perhaps Demon Eater (deservedly so, I might add -- it's excellent). What's the secret?

That's kinda off topic. It isn't about the feature. It's about promotion -- specifically away from DD.

A feature gives a temporary increase in pageviews. That's all. It has nothing to do with increasing views or rankings long term.

DarkGesen
If I didn't know any better, I'd say you two were in competition with each other. huh!?

LOL!
As if anyone could compete with Skoolmunkee. :)
She just keeps on doing things perfectly as she's been doing for years and I try vainly to keep up. That's the honest truth.

Genejoke
couldn't you ask the mods to suggest some? or just get them to do features to?

We've tried suggesting that in the past a couple of times but it just peters out. There are a few organisational, technical problems inherent in the system unfortunately that make it complicated. And we do each have our individual little lists going, so we have our eyes on quite a few for some time to come... It'd be better if there was a system in place for more people to do this, but as it is now they'd probably just be duplicating our efforts (suggesting features already on our lists, that sort of thing).

See, I thought that featuring a comic early on would be good for it, and would mean there's a higher chance that people will actually read the whole archive. Like, if I find a comic that has less than 30 pages, I'm way more likely to start reading from the beginning, whereas, if a comic has upwards of 100 pages (and I mean text-filled plot-o-licious 8 panels a page pages) there's less of a chance that I can dedicate the time to actually read the whole thing.

I didn't realize that it was all about page views and holding rank. ) : I thought it was more about doing a good job and getting some recognition for it.

Dodger
I didn't realize that it was all about page views and holding rank. ) : I thought it was more about doing a good job and getting some recognition for it.

To be fair, I think that depends on the individual(s).

ozoneocean

DarkGesen
If I didn't know any better, I'd say you two were in competition with each other. huh!?

LOL!
As if anyone could compete with Skoolmunkee. :)
She just keeps on doing things perfectly as she's been doing for years and I try vainly to keep up. That's the honest truth.

Genejoke
couldn't you ask the mods to suggest some? or just get them to do features to?

We've tried suggesting that in the past a couple of times but it just peters out. There are a few organisational, technical problems inherent in the system unfortunately that make it complicated. And we do each have our individual little lists going, so we have our eyes on quite a few for some time to come... It'd be better if there was a system in place for more people to do this, but as it is now they'd probably just be duplicating our efforts (suggesting features already on our lists, that sort of thing).

Then have more people featuring comics like before,as you keep mentioning in quackcasts. then you would have longer between choosing features.

Dodger
See, I thought that featuring a comic early on would be good for it, and would mean there's a higher chance that people will actually read the whole archive. Like, if I find a comic that has less than 30 pages, I'm way more likely to start reading from the beginning, whereas, if a comic has upwards of 100 pages (and I mean text-filled plot-o-licious 8 panels a page pages) there's less of a chance that I can dedicate the time to actually read the whole thing.

That's very true too. Long (story) comics are not likely to get new readers, regardless of their quality. However, that might be a good reason to feature long comics, too, because new readers are more likely to give them a shot if they get a feature (or a good review or other acknowledgment).

What an interesting topic. :] It's good to see users' views on it! Don't worry, Oz and I aren't taking any of this personally.

I'm quite happy doing 1 feature a week actually, I don't have any trouble doing so 99% of the time. :] It would probably be more annoying to have it changing around.

ozoneocean
Ok, only the admins -Skoolmunkee and I- do features, not the mods unfortunately. I'd love for more people to do features though, it's not always easy getting a comic that fits all the parameters each week, every week, forever... :(

Ah. I meant Admins, my mistake.

I think what also helps comics hold rank is the style? A-joke-a-day comics might attract readers to consistently come back. But more story focused ones might have people bookmarking and checking once a month, or whenever there's a bit of material built up for a longer read.

I think the important thing, mentioned earlier, is that it's going to be a bit different for each comic. For me, it was a really nice welcome back into the community- a little bit of a nod of recognition that let me switch from "I have something to prove" to "okay, I think I'm comfortable." I'm already seeing the drop in page views and rank, but I'm more or less okay with that. I figure my comic is probably really good content for a niche audience, but I don't expect it to be a runaway hit (maybe I'll try to do that one of these days, but not today).

As a reader, I like stories that are more developed. I dug the early feature of Modest Medusa because it was easy to get into and the format means that I didn't lose much as a reader by having not having a large archive. For story heavy pieces, I personally prefer later features. With some of the early features, I end up looking through, going "this is cool" and then bookmarking it in my "review in March 2012" folder. I just have a hard time reading things with a standard update schedule :/

It's interesting to consider the question of whether a feature is a way of encouraging potential or recognizing an existing accomplishment. At any given time, it's going to be a bit of both, but I imagine the degrees of the two vary from feature to feature- the earlier in the comics life, the more emphasis on encouragement, the later in the comics life, the more emphasis on recognition..

ramlama
the earlier in the comics life, the more emphasis on encouragement, the later in the comics life, the more emphasis on recognition..

WOW! I'm sensing graph potential here... O_o

Skoolmunkee needs to get ON this baby, she is "da bomb" when it comes to data analysis and the drawing of conclusions thereof.

Good work Ramlama, that was a fantastic perspective on the subject! :)
You have razor sharp, X-ray laser vision.

ozoneocean

ramlama
the earlier in the comics life, the more emphasis on encouragement, the later in the comics life, the more emphasis on recognition..

WOW! I'm sensing graph potential here... O_o

Skoolmunkee needs to get ON this baby, she is "da bomb" when it comes to data analysis and the drawing of conclusions thereof.

Good work Ramlama, that was a fantastic perspective on the subject! :)
You have razor sharp, X-ray laser vision.

D'aww. Yer gonna make me blush. Lol. It'd be fascinating to look at the numbers. Actually, this got me to thinking. I've spent the past hour crunching some numbers on my comic and trying to think of things that it'd be fun to data mine for. Ha- I now have a nice little spreadsheet monitoring my growth rate in page views from week to week (pre-feature, my growth rate from week to week was 0%, 33%, 16%, and 71%, with the feature providing a 385% bump followed by a 54% drop; I expect the drop to continue for the next few weeks, but I wonder where it'll stabilize).

smkinoshita
I'm more curious about what causes the rank drop than anything else. When Super Temps was featured, it hit the #1 spot and held it about a week or so, then dropped... it's currently around #23, #30 overall.

Ranks are largely driven by unique visitors. Comics jump up after they're featured because a large number of different people are visiting the comic, even if they only read a page or two. After the feature's been up for a while it attracts fewer unique visitors per day so the average numbers used for ranking drops. :]

What DD only reports currently are pageviews, which ALSO spike because that comic's pages are being loaded- but don't really reflect the number of people visiting the comic, so those aren't used when determining rankings. Sometimes a feature ends up with a hugely disproportionate number of pageviews than a more usual feature, some much bigger number, which probably means that more people have been reading through the archives. What would be interesting, if we had any kind of automated data services, would be to see if it's long-form comics that usually get those huge pageview numbers because perhaps they have bigger archives for people to read.

I haven't noticed it so much here, but at the other site where I used to post this kind of thing was definitely an issue. Usually whenever an artist threw a fit, deleted their gallery, and stormed off because they were "unappreciated," it tended to be somebody who'd once had a ton of (largely undeserved) popularity but was now getting something more like average traffic and feedback. I think giving someone inflated expectations of themselves and/or too much ego-stroking can be a disaster waiting to happen.

That said, I think most people who get featured here understand that the popularity boost they get is artificial and unlikely to last forever, so it's unlikely to cause problems.

El Cid
That said, I think most people who get featured here understand that the popularity boost they get is artificial and unlikely to last forever, so it's unlikely to cause problems.

I'm pretty sure that's what happened with me. I'm unsure if I picked up any 'new' readers through getting featured, but rather a page view spike of people just having a quick look. Not to say I don't appreciated being featured though. That said, I've fav'd titles that have been featured...

There's a misunderstanding among people new to DD, I think, that - once a comic is featured - its readership will increase significantly and permanently. (I know I used to believe that!) This is not the case.

There was a lot of discussion about features and pageviews at around the time Shades was featured (waaaay back in 2007!) At the time, skoolmunkee made the observation that traffic can be expected to decline sharply after a day or two of being featured, and within a couple of weeks is likely to be back at around the same level it was before. From memory, that was almost exactly my experience.

Success, for most comics, is a long hard slog. With or without a feature, long term success is usually the result of consistent quality combined with a reasonably active participation in the DD community (posting in forums, commenting on other comics etc) and/or extensive advertising elsewhere. There are exceptions but, in the long run, those activities will have a much better pay-off than simply being featured.

Not that being featured is to be sneezed at. It's just important to realise that the main benefit is not additional long-term readers but the ego-boost you get from having your comic recognised as being up there with all the other great comics which have been featured at DD.

As for whether it's better to be featured early or late in a comic's development, I suspect that will vary from comic to comic. For gag-strips, it probably doesn't matter very much either way. Whether there are ten pages in the archives or fifty, a reader can easily tell whether or not it appeals to his or her sense of humour, even without reading all the archives. For long-form story comics, it's a tough call. Not enough pages and a new reader won't be able to tell whether the story is worth sticking with. Too many and some readers will be put off by the size of the archives.

Whichever way they jump, this is one of those areas where the Admins are going to be damned if they do and damed if they don't, I suspect! If there is a comic you think is worthy of more attention, therefore, don't forget you can list it in this forum thread .

I'm not a huge fan of early features myself. When I sit down to read a comic I like to have a long and well developed story before me. Of course, only a handfull of comics that are put up on this site are feature worthy and it takes them a while to give them that kind of weight. I suppose that early features, therefore, are a necessary evil.

Still, I know that if I were to put my comic up and then have it featured at 20 pages I wouldn't be happy about it. I know that the reader boost that a feature gives is squeezed into a very short window, and if my comic were still in its infancy I doubt it would have the kind of holding power necessary to maintain those readers. If the timing is off, then that's it. The comic can never be featured again, the readers dissapear, and you are left with nothing but bragging rights. Early features are best left to strip comics that are never going to have a plot anyway. If they're funny, people will fave them even if they have no more than 20 strips.