I think that the top 10 have had their day and its time to step down.
I think a good idea would be this;
Create a new category here at DD called; Drunk Duck Classics.
After a comic has been consistantly in the top 10 for at least six months to a year it is removed and placed in the Classics column and this gives others a chance to get into the top 10 and shine.
The ones that were in the top 10 can now be content to being in a class by themselves.

After all, Mickey Mouse, Bugs Bunny and Popeye the Sailor are no longer as intently viewed as they were years ago but they are still the poster boys of American animation.

Astroboy is not in the top 10 of most viewed anime, but he's still the poster boy for japanese anime.

And in Europe, The Adventures of Tintin and Asterix the Gaul are still beloved icons tho' no longer the shining new flavor of Euro comics.

So I think its time to create a new category for the the top tenners to move into and give those of us a chance to break the glass ceiling!

The Top 10 are NOT there because they are sorted by Total Viewed stats (which would make them untouchable if that were indeed the case). They are there because they are sorted by Recently Viewed stats.

This means they are not Mickey/Asterix/Popeye. Because they are *still* the most recently popular comics on DD. Historical stats aren't factored in.

Who's Astroboy?

Besides the overall silliness/pointlessness factor, the main problem I see with that idea is that all it means is a NEW same-old Top 10 would take over the spot. The Top 20 does change around a bit, but it's almost as stagnant as the Top 10. The Top 50... ehh... still mostly familiar faces there too.

I can't think of a site I've been to where they had a Top 10 that was all that fluid. And even when there is movement, it's just jockeying positions between the same usual characters. And I don't see why you shouldn't expect that. If the people at the top keep doing whatever got them to the top, whatever that is, why wouldn't they stay up there?

I'm inclined to agree with El Cid. Most of the comics in the top ten have been around for several years. Their creators put a lot of time and effort into improving their art and building an audience. They should be allowed to enjoy the fruits of their labor.

The ranking hasn't changed too much in the time that I've been a member here, but it's not impossible for other comics to make their way in. That Medusa comic is a good example of a recent webcomic breaking right into the top ten and staying there.

By the way, Astro Boy is a manga character created by Osamu Tezuka. He's a little robot boy who goes on adventures, fights evil robots, and saves the day in a world set in the near future. Astro Boy was one of the first massively successful manga characters and is an icon of Japanese comics. He was also one of the earliest characters to get an anime series that was dubbed over for American audiences. (Predating even Speed Racer)

As far as "getting more exposure for other comics on the front page" goes... I wish the random comics box had some kind of filter that only let it show comics that have updated in the last year. There's a lot of abandoned and finished comics on the site and if they didn't show up in the "random," everyone's regularly updating comics would cycle more often, thus giving everyone more potential views.

Plus like... it's kind of a bummer when I click on a thumbnail for something that looks good and the comic was abandoned back in 2007 and only made it to page number 12 or something. : \ Maybe I'm just being inconsiderate...

I'm not dissing the top 10.
I'm just saying that they deserve a category of their own...the CLASSICS! :)

Dodger
Plus like... it's kind of a bummer when I click on a thumbnail for something that looks good and the comic was abandoned back in 2007 and only made it to page number 12 or something. : \ Maybe I'm just being inconsiderate...

I think there's a page number thing as part of the description in the mouseover for all comics on the front page?- Yeah there is!
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Yeah, the idea of retiring the top ten is dodgy because it's like Mlai says: those are in the lest because they're currently the most popular comics. They all get more unique views than other comics here every day.
IF you get more unique views the YOU will join them in the top ten, it's as simple as that.
Being on the front page all the time because you're in the top ten doesn't really get you enough people clicking your thumbnail to KEEP you on the front page.

What gets you there are links from elsewhere: So you can advertise big on Project Wonderful and other sites and ad systems, whore out your comic at cons and in other forums, get reviewed in a really popular comic blog, get linked from really popular comics on the web... etc.

DO NOT expect to get on the front page just by being popular though Drunk Duck and only networking within Drunk Duck. You HAVE to go outside of DD to get there!
-that's because you need several thousand people a day looking at your comic to get in that list and on the Charby level you need 10s of thousands. You can' not get that many people just by going though DD to do it, -because although we might have hundreds of thousands looking at the site as a whole, it's all split up between all the thousands of comics here and there's no way you can advertise and network on every single one or even a small portion of that.

Even if you homed in on only the top twenty for your networking and advertising, only a small portion of their audience would come over and check out out and you wouldn't be able to keep doing that and only a very few of those new visitors would stick around...

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HAHAHA, I could write a novel on this subject. Try listening to some of the Quackcasts SKool and I have do where we discuss advertising your comics and marketing strategies etc and different ways of promoting your stuff and becoming popular.

ozoneocean
I think there's a page number thing as part of the description in the mouseover for all comics on the front page?- Yeah there is!

I meant that more like... some comics are abandoned at page 300 something, but there's plenty to read. Some comics actually end on page 12, so it's hard to judge if it is just a short comic, a new comic that has just started, or one that just died because the description doesn't tell you the date of the comic's last update. It'd be great if there was a "last updated: mm/dd/yyyy" thing alongside the page number in the description... but that's probably something that would have to pop up for the "recently updated" comics and the "top 10" as well because of coding or something... and that's kind of a stupid feature for those two boxes, lol.

I'll stop now. >>;

I'm all in favour of giving more exposure to newer comics on the front page. And the idea of adding a "dormant comic" filter to the Random section was certainly suggested as a possible improvement for the new DD design. (Can't remember if it was adopted or "parked" for a later date!)

But removing comics from the Top 10 just because they've been there for a long time is very "iffy". I agree that it's boring to see the same names there all the time but - once you start excluding the most popular comics - it can only be a matter of time before the Top 10 consists of nothing but second-rate comics, and that would be bad for everyone at DD (creators and readers alike).

There are strong arguments for changing the way rankings are calculated, improving the mechanics of the random comic selections and all sorts of other ways to boost the profile of some of the excellent but under-appreciated comics here at DD. But I don't believe that tinkering with the Top 10 is one them.

The Top 10 is what it is. Some of the comics there may not necessarily be the best or the most thought-provoking or the most entertaining or the most likely to influence others. But they are the most popular, and excluding them on any grounds other than popularity would just be a form of vote-rigging.

Someone
What gets you there are links from elsewhere: So you can advertise big on Project Wonderful and other sites and ad systems, whore out your comic at cons and in other forums, get reviewed in a really popular comic blog, get linked from really popular comics on the web... etc.

DO NOT expect to get on the front page just by being popular though Drunk Duck and only networking within Drunk Duck. You HAVE to go outside of DD to get there!
-that's because you need several thousand people a day looking at your comic to get in that list and on the Charby level you need 10s of thousands. You can' not get that many people just by going though DD to do it, -because although we might have hundreds of thousands looking at the site as a whole, it's all split up between all the thousands of comics here and there's no way you can advertise and network on every single one or even a small portion of that.

Even if you homed in on only the top twenty for your networking and advertising, only a small portion of their audience would come over and check out out and you wouldn't be able to keep doing that and only a very few of those new visitors would stick around...

So that's why I don't have a top ten comic!

PW add have helped get Malefic in the top 100 (occasionally, top position 62) with minimal expenditure. Never done much other promotion outside of DD though. I have plans to change that though but it's working out how and where to get the most out of it.

Someone
The Top 10 is what it is. Some of the comics there may not necessarily be the best or the most thought-provoking or the most entertaining or the most likely to influence others. But they are the most popular, and excluding them on any grounds other than popularity would just be a form of vote-rigging.

This.

You can always filter the the 10 spot by genre or rating to get a different selection :D

I'm gonna come across like kind of a jerk here, I'm just in a hurry but want to respond. :]

If people think other deserving comics get a shot at front page exposure, that's what the Featured Comics are for. And those ARE limited to comics which update semi-regularly and have updated recently.

I'm afraid I have to admit that people complaining about the Top 10 comics getting too entrenched always comes across as a bit of sour grapes to me. They're in the Top 10 for a reason, if their readers no longer thought the comics were good, they'd stop coming, the comic would drop rank. The list does see change-ups now and then, often after we feature something particularly popular. And ones like MM and Blue Circus manage it fine enough on their own.

I know there's a comic in the top 10 which hasn't updated since April, but if he's still getting enough visitors from someplace to keep him in the top 10, good for him! You'd probably be flattered if it was the case for you guys.



I also have to say it's kind of eyebrow-raising to me that Roy Duncan is the one complaining about the Top 10 comics, when what it seems to me he's actually doing (and has done before) was try to tap into THEIR popularity by cameoing all of them in HIS comic. I know he's a tireless self-promoter but sometimes it just rubs the wrong way. I also can't figure out why he took all his old comics off DD just to repost them all in a super-annoying 1+ Mb format.

TBH I thought about replying with "Yes I want a feature that keeps my comic and the comics I like in the top 10 as well!" :P

It would be kinda neat to have a DD hits only feature and/or filter though. See which comics get the most hits from just DD members that are logged in.

I wonder if I should suggest that to Wowio?

I do agree with some sort of filter for the Random list.

There is a lot of comics whose thumbnails look neat, but then it just has 1 single page and haven't been updated in ages.

@ skoolmunkee.

I hope you don't think the same of me.

I applaud the top 10...especially Charby the Vampirate!

I just meant that now that they've been in the top 10 for so long,
they should get their own Special category here on the duck and leave room for others who are devoted to entertaining to have a chance.

As for me...whether I ever get into the top 10 isn't all that overly important.
I can be content knowing my comic is in good standing here at DD.

But how many agree with me at least that a HALL of FAME is in order for Charby and the others? :)

Dr. Argon wants the top 10 dead.

Smorty Smythe would have them enshrined instead.

As mentioned by others, the basis of your proposition is not correct:

meemjar
After all, Mickey Mouse, Bugs Bunny and Popeye the Sailor are no longer as intently viewed as they were years ago but they are still the poster boys of American animation.

Astroboy is not in the top 10 of most viewed anime, but he's still the poster boy for japanese anime.

And in Europe, The Adventures of Tintin and Asterix the Gaul are still beloved icons tho' no longer the shining new flavor of Euro comics.

The top ten here are not the stars of yesteryear or the "classics." They are the CURRENT most popular comics, which is the point of the top ten. There have been previous members of the top ten that have fallen into obscurity. For those, perhaps your "Hall of Fame" is valid. (Although most have either left DD for their own space or stopped updating completely.)

They have every reason and right to be on the front page. The reason we have three categories of "front page" comics (four if you count features) is to balance the fairly stable "most popular" with other attributes. And from what I gather, Wowio is playing with other types of "front page" lists to include as well. However, the top 10 is the popularity list, and it is what it is. It is something to strive for and something that takes WORK to maintain. There is no glass ceiling. There's no "DD elite." There are good artists that work their butts off at promotion and continue to do so. It will change if popularity drops (as you mentioned with your "classic cartoon" examples). If they fall off the list, and you want to commemorate their greatness somewhere, that's fine.

People who are in the Top 10 are quite rightly proud of being there and have done a lot of work to get there and stay there. I'm not sure if they'd consider it a reward to be removed and put someplace else where they can't compete with other comics. It might even demotivate them. I'm not one for (even unintentionally) punishing someone for their success.

And as El Cid said, I believe that sifting out a percentage of long-runners you'll still end up with a relatively static list of comics so I'm not sure that would ultimately solve much.

I don't disagree with the idea of a "Classic" tag for some sort of successful comic as a reward, but to me that sounds more like a trophy thing in addition to regular top 10 participation, not a change to the top 10 mechanics itself. And we admins will have the ability to create new user trophies on the site, so that kind of thing would be easily possible. :] (Well, I dunno about automating code, we have to assign things individually currently.)

And the idea of various user filters which might deliver you a customized top 10 list sounds interesting. Volte played with something like that way back, with horror, fantasy, whatever portal pages. That didn't go anywhere, but the basic concept is still valid.



BTW I don't believe Dr Argon actually wants the Top 10 gone, I think that's just the "excuse" for a miniseries of cameos, killing them off is something a supervillain would do. :]

Huh, so that explains it. I feel smarter now. :D Hooray!

Hmmm, 'Classic' trophies...

I like the sound of that!

Would you have to be in the top 10 to be eligible or could anyone who has earned popularity points regardless whether they've been in the top 10 or not get one?

If anyone whose had an enduring, long running strip here at the duck gets a classic stamp, I could be all for that!
But if it only goes to the top tenners, we're back to square one again.

My suggestion would be that anyone who has been on the duck for 2 or more years and has contributed 500+ pages gets that new trophy!

I have some nominations for the Classic stamp.

Magical Misfits.
Grin and Spirit.
House of Muses.
Villain next door.
Warriorborn.

To name a few.:)

I replied already to your PQ but I might as well add a bit here.


I'm all for adding new trophies. :] As the system is on the preview site currently though, we have to create them and add people manually. I've been told that "the trophies people currently have will carry over" but I haven't been able to find out if that means the entire system will carry over, or they'll just port the end result and try and figure out a new system. I like the old system (and I've said so), just that people want it to work right. People who didn't get trophies when they should have, for example, still wouldn't have them if they just ported over "who has what trophies" data.

The other thing I'm not sure about (aside from any changes to the trophy system as a whole they might make) is whether we'll be able to get the automatic assignment stuff coded. I REALLY don't want to have to be assigning stuff like that by hand for a bunch of reasons. I dunno if they'd be willing to implement new ideas for us, or maybe build some system where we can use various variables ourselves to make them maybe?

I'm gonna make a note here to bug them about the trophy system next time I talk to them, or maybe send an e-mail since I'm not sure when we'll talk to them next...

Not sure all the comics on your list would work with an automated system really, just because of technical differences- HotM for example splits all her comics into separate accounts, which might make it hard for the system to figure out cumulative pages (for a comic, not for a user). And VND just took down all his pages to re-upload them, so that technically kills his page count. So the trophies may NOT be as straightforward as that. :]

But yeah, I do like trophies and it would be awesome to get more of them going, we could do all kinds of things with them.