You can thank ozone and only fools and vikings for this.

Someone
I just found out people think my comic is Christian related because its called Gods Almighty, and won't read it because they believe that. D:

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!

ITS JUST A NAME! ITS JUST A NAAAAMMMMEEEE!!!!!!

I think this could apply to other media but is most relevant to this so comic discussion it is. At least until someone moves it.

My view... it can. No one likes getting lectured right? At the same time that sort of content can make for some very rich story telling.


Anyway over to you.

I don't care as long as it is entertaining. It's all in how it is presented. If it's clearly JUST to push some agenda and has no other redeeming qualities then yeah, I wouldn't want to read it.

The name God's Almighty didn't make me think it was a religious comic at all. And 1 look at it will prove it!

Unless someone thinks she is pushing some kind of pagan god agenda :P

At the end in my comic I get religion involved. Eve, the bible is even a part of the imagery and my two main characters are christian and pray.

But I'm not pushing anything so I hope it doesn't turn anyone away. My new comic brings in 2 more stars that are Buddhist. It's just part of the characters. Some characters will be athiest. Basically as long as it doesn't feel like I am shoving any view down a person's throat or trying to convert ppl I think everything should be fine.

Ahhhhh... well in terms of Gods Almighty it's not religious content or anything putting people off, it's the people being overly sensitive to the word "gods" and not reading the comic because of that and finding that it's NOT religious.

I think that was my point in thinking this should be a discussion, that people are a bit sensitive ( both pro or anti religion), so it doesn't take much to set them off.

But in terms of how you've framed this, The New America was a comic here on DD that I decided to feature. I got the impression that the content and theme was sort of really subtly subversively right-wing and pro-Christianity, almost outright but not quite. I'm not a fan of either of those things, but I featured it anyway because I thought she'd done such an amazing job in the writing and artwork.

I think if something is done well enough in art and writing then it doesn't matter.

On the other end of the scale are Jack Chick's Chick tracts. Some of them are actually done by extremely competent artists, but the writing is so revoltingly bad in all of them, so stolidly dogmatic and outright offensive that you can only read them as bad comedy and even that gets lame fast.

I read the title and Subnormality immediately sprang into my mind. I hate reading comics that are just illustrated philosophy lessons, regardless of how good the art is. People like to rag on CAD for cramming too many sentences into one speech bubble, and when you're blatantly attempting to spread your own beliefs through your comic, be they spiritual, political, or both, it's going to happen. If you can't get the idea across through conventional, realistic dialog and fluid motion, don't just resort to plastering words all over everything.

Even if your comic is specifically dedicated to, say, Christianity, that doesn't mean you should restrict yourself to randomly putting verses over images of the cross every third comic. Try showing something practical, you're using a visual medium, so show us some visuals.

I wont read a comic if it involves Christianity or carries a religious message. It is a huge turn-off and the authors never seem to understand just how high up on their soap box they're actually getting. The only one with Christianity I've ever enjoyed was called 'Blankets' but the character was questioning how things were.

Catholicism is excluded from this since most of the time it's just being historically accurate (like Renaissance period themed comics i read) instead of 'wholesome' christian comics with an agenda.

It all comes down to purpose and presentation. I read comics for entertainment. I have no interest in personal agendas, preaching, or propaganda. This goes for all topics, not just religion or politics (like a dog breeder preaching the evils of Merle or something). It doesn't matter whether I agree with them or not. Controversial topics can enhance a work and make readers think -- if done well. There is a huge difference between influencing readers to consider touchy subjects to form opinions and trying to force readers to see things one way and convert them to YOUR viewpoint. A well-written character can be deep and have opinions and beliefs. A fictional world can have politics. These things might even agree with the author's opinion (or not), but it's easy to tell the difference between a well-written character/setting and a mouthpiece for the author's agenda. I will not read the latter. It is an insult to my intelligence. You can show me new things and get me to think, but don't tell me WHAT to think.

usedbooks
There is a huge difference between influencing readers to consider touchy subjects to form opinions and trying to force readers to see things one way and convert them to YOUR viewpoint. A well-written character can be deep and have opinions and beliefs. A fictional world can have politics. These things might even agree with the author's opinion (or not), but it's easy to tell the difference between a well-written character/setting and a mouthpiece for the author's agenda. I will not read the latter. It is an insult to my intelligence. You can show me new things and get me to think, but don't tell me WHAT to think.

Yeah, this is what I think pretty much. I don't mind characters with strong beliefs about politics or religion, but if every character and every topic of the story is about a certain religious or political topic it's a bit of a turn off. Unless I'm looking for a comic geared toward a certain subject like that, and I never find myself doing that. xD

Nope. In fact, I'd GLADLY read it. I actually prefer religious, political, and spiritual content in comics even if I dont agree with it. (ex: Jack Chick. I love reading his comics even if I dont agree with all of it) Because at least, I have to tip my hat to the author for at least demonstrating signs of intelligence and taking the time to do research.

But then again, most sci-fi has political, religious, and spiritual content in it.

Examples:

Star wars - reeks full of eastern spirituality and politics that show hegelian dialectic.

Starship Troopers - lol Nazi uniforms... very very obvious. hahaha.

Avatar - anti-war, environmentalism, but reeks of new age gaia worship and is anti-human.


Anyway I dont think most people tend to get turned off by religious, political, and spiritual content in comics. Why is my comic in the top 20 of drunkduck? Its literally overflowing with political, religious, and spiritual content. Haha.

But then again, I always got haters every now and then. lol

Political and religious content works fine as a driving force behind an otherwise engaging story, but when the author is overtly trying to shove his views down your throat, that's never fun to read. Usually the lesson they're trying to teach turns out to be something superficial and asinine, if not just plain wrong, and trying to mask it behind snazzy comic book artwork tends to diminish the message as well as the comic... all the while insulting the readers. It's just not a good idea IMO.

kyupol
Anyway I dont think most people tend to get turned off by religious, political, and spiritual content in comics. Why is my comic in the top 20 of drunkduck? Its literally overflowing with political, religious, and spiritual content. Haha.

But then again, I always got haters every now and then. lol

Haters get you popularity, and popularity gets you haters. If you want hits, tick people off. ;)

In entertainment, I like to enter into new worlds, whether they are totally original (fantasy, intrigue) or just a focus on sub-worlds that I'm already familiar with. In entertainment, I like to be surprised and maybe challenged. One notes just don't do it for me.

If religion (or political agenda, or sexual preferences/orientation/practices) are intrinsic to a setting or a character, then it's part of the entire story, and it can be great, even if it's not something I would personally endorse if I had to live with it in my "real" world. A character who is a religious fanatic is entirely different than a comic that is bent on a religious viewpoint.

If the entire story is only about religion (or political agenda, or sexual preferences/orientation/practices), then I'll leave it to the fanatics. Preaching is practically a numbing of the soul, imo, no matter what one might be preaching about.

In this case, I think "death of the author" applies in reverse, in that the author is actively trying to dictate your formative experience with his story. That is actually very bad in terms of storytelling, because a good story always has multiple layers for interpretation. By trying to tell the reader what to think, you limit your own storytelling, and you piss off the knowledgeable readers who are looking for a deeper experience.

A good story is not what you have written. It is the slightly difference experience formed between you and every single reader.

Readers must thus separate a literary work from its creator in order to liberate the text from interpretive tyranny (a notion similar to Erich Auerbach's discussion of narrative tyranny in Biblical parables). Each piece of writing contains multiple layers and meanings. In a well-known quotation, Barthes draws an analogy between text and textiles, declaring that a "text is a tissue of quotations," drawn from "innumerable centers of culture," rather than from one, individual experience. The essential meaning of a work depends on the impressions of the reader, rather than the "passions" or "tastes" of the writer; "a text's unity lies not in its origins," or its creator, "but in its destination," or its audience.

If having the title "god" is a turn off for readers. I think my comic should be the biggest turn off. The content is so religious that it only caters for specific readers who can handle reading it. Despite the content nature of my comic and low readership count, I'm not giving up on it. I love religious topics like candies to a child but I'm not like some religious nuts who impose their ideology on others. I prefer my readers to have the freedom to form their own opinions when reading my comics.

Your manga has naked girls and Justin Bieber as God. I don't think you have to worry about the religious content turning off any potential non-religious readers, LOL.

Consistently professional manga art quality. Definitely print-worthy in terms of art.

There's content, and there's content.

I actually enjoy stories which reflect religion, politics or spiritual topics. But like so many have mentioned before, I don't enjoy reading propaganda, or stories written in a "holier than thou" tone.

I'm not entirely sure what "spiritual" means here, but I think that some of the core issues (some would say problems) of our times revolve around religion and politics, thus I don't feel like stories in any medium should generally ignore them.

I am an atheist, and at time I can be some kind of "Jesus Freak" as well. I love learning about religion, and has a very Catholic background and even though I don't believe in it anymore, it still marked me. Other religions are also of an interest to me. The relation with humans and religion fascinates me, so even comics that will be very "pushy" with their views can hold my interest for a while, but those that I'll keep on reading are those that only have religious influences our that are done in a way that I don't feel attacked for not believing.

Political is a bit more touchy to me, as I personnally feel it more directed to us. By that I mean that if someone is pro Politician A that is very anti everything I stand for, I feel more threatened(relatively) than if someone tells me I might go to hell. I do like mini or stand-alone political comics which are often funny. But any long format comic depicting existing political parties always seem preachery, no matter if it concords with my political views. A story with a strong fictive political system, even if influenced from a real one, has more chances of keeping me reading it.

And for spiritual, it pretty much is the same than for the religious.

I do like the Christian comic JACK.
(I'm talking about this one http://www.pholph.com/ . Not the Drunkduck Jack which is not a very religious comic.)

Also one of the top DD comics at a time Elijah_and_Azuu is a spiritual comic. http://www.drunkduck.com/Elijah_and_Azuu/index.php

And well I'm all over political stuff if I ever find them. I like the more subtle message comics vs the in your face message ones. These comics give ya something to think about.

Abt_Nihil
I actually enjoy stories which reflect religion, politics or spiritual topics. But like so many have mentioned before, I don't enjoy reading propaganda, or stories written in a "holier than thou" tone.

Add me to the list!

The other use of religion I find a turn-off is when stories try to add extra depth to a story by clumsily adding a religious dimension, especially if it's done to explain something which otherwise wouldn't make sense. The ending of Battlestar Galactica was a great example of that. For the most part, the series very cleverly used politics and religion to make us think about a whole range of issues from the practical to the mundane to the philosophical, and I loved it. Then, in the final episode (I assume this is old enough now to not need flagging as a spoiler?), the big revelation went all Erich von Daniken on us, and Hey Presto - every second character is a God or an angel and we find it's not set in the future but in our past and we're all descended from them. Uuuugh! That kind of "twist" is just too predictable and cliched for words!

DAJB

Abt_Nihil
I actually enjoy stories which reflect religion, politics or spiritual topics. But like so many have mentioned before, I don't enjoy reading propaganda, or stories written in a "holier than thou" tone.

Add me to the list!

The other use of religion I find a turn-off is when stories try to add extra depth to a story by clumsily adding a religious dimension, especially if it's done to explain something which otherwise wouldn't make sense. The ending of Battlestar Galactica was a great example of that. For the most part, the series very cleverly used politics and religion to make us think about a whole range of issues from the practical to the mundane to the philosophical, and I loved it. Then, in the final episode (I assume this is old enough now to not need flagging as a spoiler?), the big revelation went all Erich von Daniken on us, and Hey Presto - every second character is a God or an angel and we find it's not set in the future but in our past and we're all descended from them. Uuuugh! That kind of "twist" is just too predictable and cliched for words!

That was my biggest beef with that show. Honestly the entire last season just seemed like an excuse for the writer to use the show as his religious mouthpiece and throw all the old (and actually interesting) mythology out the door. That and the crap with starbuck made no sense. I really wish they'd just had some 'hey we found a suitable planet evn tho it's not earth lets live on it!' ending. It would have been 100x less cliche.

In my case it all comes down to why such content is there and how it's handled. For example if Christianity is in the comic to demonstrate that everyone with a working moral compass either is Christian or is easily converted, yeah I'd take issue with that.

As JNP brought up in his comic there are some characters who are Christian who pray at one point in the story, I do not have a problem with this. In the case of the Devon Legacy it isn't even a concern of agenda but rather of characterization, two characters are established as Christian and the situation is dire so they pray. Makes sense to me.

I'm not sure why this is even a debate. Some of the best art in the world has sprouted from religious sources. Examples include everything from The Sistine Chapel to the recordings of Mahalia Jackson. And yes, I do believe that one can still be deeply moved by religious art even if they happen to have a secular mindset.

In terms of comics, there have been plenty of religiously themed projects that I have enjoyed. One fairly recent example is Robert Crumb's adaptation of The Book of Genesis. Sure, Robert Crumb claims that he doesn't really believe that Genesis is "the word of God", but he adapted it in a respectful way that could be appreciated by both the pious and the secular.

One series that also mined the Torah for source material was the Vertigo series Testament. Yeah, I thought that its momentum skittered a bit after the first dozen issues. And yes, it ended before it accomplished all that it should have. Still, even with the lumpy parts in mind there were some sublime comic book moments in there. And, if you have the trades, there's a wealth of valuable research in the back pages that adds a great deal to the stories.

Another good example is Alan Moore's Promethea. Much of that series is an explanation of Moore's faith in a pagan religion that's reflected in magic. I do think that I got a little dry in places, but the fantastic artwork by J.H. Williams III really pulled it through.

Persepolis should also be brought up in a discussion about how religion is interpreted in comics. It's a very well documented example of a young woman struggling with conforming to regulations of a theocracy. It's not exactly a religious piece, but there are elements in there that are worthy insight.

Of course, there are also the Chick Tracts. I find those hilarious, but I somehow doubt that was the writer's intention.

This is comic from a guy who believes in the Christian God.

No, not really. Religion can be a interesting starting point for a story, when it gets into "You're going to hell if you do this" or a lot of unnecessary moralizing I think it would get on my nerves(well, unless it's for satire). To be honest I've never seen any comics do stuff like that anyway.

As long as the story doesn't suck, no.

If it's going "Nazi, nazi, nazi" or "jesus, jesus, jesus", etcetera, then yes.

Sometimes people'll try to explain their views through their comic and therefore will ruin it.

Other times it's the psychos.

And most often, it has nothing to do with anything.

It has been said by nearly everyone, but the point is to create a powerful story. If I want to preach I'll write an essay or article, I won't ruin a story I've invested time and energy to create in order to make every character in it potential conversion pieces. There are some movies like that I have occasionally come across, preaching a specific Christian conduct in an extremely irritating 'queen bee' way which really put me off- and as anyone who's talked with me knows I'm Christian.

I think any story that isn't allowed to take on its own life and allowed to develop naturally (pretty much like a plant would do from a seed) will put off its readers/viewers/audience even if the idea/position it preaches is one shared by everyone unanimously. A story can be pointing at some dilemmas, questions, maybe even outcomes or inner thoughts of the creator (I don't think that can be avoided, anyway) but it cannot REVOLVE around said concepts with an effort to 'convert' the audience (not stimulate or even convince, convert).

It stops being a story and becomes an excuse- or a thin veil for a different purpose. The purpose could be anything- from religion to football rules to an effort to present nazis as misunderstood do-gooders. If the story is cramped obsessively around achieving the audience's conversion, it will still be a turn-off for anyone who is not a fanatic.

My own comic here on this site is primarily just escapist humor/adventure.

But in subtle (and not-so-subtle) ways I express my disdain for all kinds of Elitism from pure Racism to preferential treatment of one social group over another by the Powers that be.

While I never preached it out loud in my comic, I've shown my hero defy both the ruffians of the underclass and the snobs of the upper class alike while defending underdogs of any social caste.

That Jesus guy gets enough press. Comics with a belief really turn me off.