I've done my first comic 'The Dragon Fists of Smorty Smythe' in greyscale for speedier production and because my tendonitis makes excessive work on photoshop hard.
But I'm planning on sucking it in and colorizing it.

As for my newest comic 'Fatass & Spaz' I realise that with it I had to go to color as it was essential to its development.

It depends on the style... for manga, fans EXPECT it to be black and white. It's a skill and talent unto itself. On the other hand, I wouldn't want to read a super-hero comic that WASN'T color. So, the style dictates the style, so-to-speak.

One problem I see with a lot of B&W is the inks are not laid in a way that presents a finished work for the viewer. In other words, a true B&W comic has inks specifically done for B&W. Color inks are done completely differently because it is expected that colors are going to give the art 'mass' and a 3d quality. B&W specific inks have to handle those jobs. Most artists don't realize that and so they end up with inks that look like childrens' coloring books. If you look at a B&W page and think, 'Color would make this better', the artist has failed.

If you want to see really fantastic B&W that's not manga, check out Daniel Shaffer's 'Dogwitch'. It's some of the best inks-for-inks-sake I've ever seen.

I would say when done well, color does make a comic better. It's kind of like the difference between color and black and white films. The only reason we would film anything in black and white anymore is to pay homage to or parody old films and TV. With comics, it usually boils down to either tight deadlines or the limitations of the artist (not everybody is a wiz with color theory). I can't think of any genre that I've seen, however, which was not improved visually with the use of color, even manga and other comics made with a black and white presentation in mind.

As with anything, though, it all depends on the quality of the work. Done well, color definitely adds to the presentation of a story, but done poorly, it can be distracting and painfully amateurish.

isukun
The only reason we would film anything in black and white anymore is to pay homage to or parody old films and TV

I don't think that's right. Reduced colour is a valid stylistic option used to help set mood or tone... Look at films like Eraserhead of The Elephant man (both by Lynch). Neither were homage or parody.

And in comics it's also a valid style choice quite apart from colour. For example, look at the comic of Skoolmunkee "Abby Sanders Lawyer to the Supernatural" .

The walking dead.

Look at films like Eraserhead of The Elephant man (both by Lynch). Neither were homage or parody.

Both were homage, he says as much in interviews. He wanted the same look and feel as classic films.

And in comics it's also a valid style choice quite apart from colour. For example, look at the comic of Skoolmunkee "Abby Sanders Lawyer to the Supernatural".

Looks nice and all, but would still look better in color.

isukun
Both were homage, he says as much in interviews. He wanted the same look and feel as classic films.

Even if he did, you can be sure that wasn't the entirety of his reasoning. Lynch is a very artistically aware director who uses tone and colour intricately throughout all his works, whether a preponderance of bright, vivid hues, or overwhelmingly dark scenes with bright flashes of pale colour within them...

And there have been many others, using tonal effects of grey or monochrome colour to achieve specific effects in film and video projects isn't rare, but it's harder to get away with something like that in modern day commercial projects because producers and studio backers aren't very accepting of things that're seen as limiting commercial potential of the finished product. (unless the director has a lot of power and influnce like Spielberg with Schindler's List)

Projects more tolerant of artistic license are where you'll find a lot of work that utilises limited colour: Art house films (of course), advertisements for various premium products, music videos...

isukun

And in comics it's also a valid style choice quite apart from colour. For example, look at the comic of Skoolmunkee "Abby Sanders Lawyer to the Supernatural".

Looks nice and all, but would still look better in color.

I'm sorry, but I can only find this humorous. The images are structured in such a way as to completely negate the need for colour. Stylistically they're prefect as they are.
Other comics such as The Hub and Supermassive Black hole are similarly structured not to need the use of colour.

A lot of your arthouse films which utilize limited color do so for the same reasons Clerks was originally in black and white, which has nothing to do with a particular visual style. When you see it in videos and commercials the idea is to portray either class or the gritty realism of classic film and documentary work, so once again, homage.

The images are structured in such a way as to completely negate the need for colour.

That really doesn't matter. Hokuto no Ken was meant to be in black and white, too, but the Master Editions still look superior. The same could be said about Bone. Just because it still works doesn't mean it can't get better.

Out of all the comics and manga I've read, I can only think of one which NEEDED to be in black and white and that was only because some of their gags relied on the reader's inability to distinguish colors.

isukun
A lot of your arthouse films which utilize limited color do so for the same reasons Clerks was originally in black and white, which has nothing to do with a particular visual style. When you see it in videos and commercials the idea is to portray either class or the gritty realism of classic film and documentary work, so once again, homage.

I feel that you're reaching here. Obviously this is an impasse- whatever examples I bring up you'll simply dismiss and return to your previous justifications.
Fair enough, this sort of thing isn't uncommon on forums :)

I'll agree that we both hold different positions on this one and let it be.

What no name calling? shocking.

I would just mention manga... the NORM is black and white... not because color is better and it's just done in B&W because the artists are lazy. Manga is B&W because MANGA is B&W? :-) It's expected, not just accepted. It should also be noted that manga is the largest selling comic style art in the world, by far.

So, there is a real market, a huge market, for B&W comics. They're not poor examples of lazy artists who can't color... it's the other way around... color comics are by people who can't do good linework (just kidding, but hopefully it shows the absurdity of the opposite as well).

Tim Wellman
I would just mention manga... the NORM is black and white... not because color is better and it's just done in B&W because the artists are lazy. Manga is B&W because MANGA is B&W? :-)

Probably because it's cheap to print. ;)

Color, like any element of a comic, is subject to the needs of the story. For example my comic was intended to harken back to old TV westerns from the 50's which were all black and white.

not because color is better and it's just done in B&W because the artists are lazy.

Manga is black and white for two reasons. One is that it is cheaper to print. Manga in general is meant to be cheap and accessible and generally has no collectors value. It is distributed initially on low quality newsprint with cheap ink to cut printing costs.

The other reason, as I mentioned before, is due to the deadlines. Manga tends to have harsher deadlines than Western comics and are usually put together by smaller artist teams. It's faster to work in black and white and when you're racing to stay ahead of the animation, speed is critical. Western comics don't have to really worry about that issue.

Still people do appreciate color in manga and that's why you more often than not see artists producing color pages every few chapters. Publishers wouldn't spring for the more expensive glossy paper if they didn't think people wanted it.

Speaking of webcomics print costs are largely irrelevant. That aside it is down to how well it is done and preference.
Isuken clearly has a hard on for colour and the points given are mostly valid in some shape or form. However because of those limitations in the past people have gained an appreciation of black and white art and it is now done as a matter of choice as often as of necessity.
To get back to the simple point of does it make it better.

It depends...

Would sin city benefit from colour? I think not.

Genejoke
Would sin city benefit from colour?

Exactly what I was going to say.

Genejoke
Speaking of webcomics print costs are largely irrelevant.

I dunno. I like the idea of having large volumes of printed material at cheap prices. Black and white keeps that cost down and let's me work fast enough to produce that kind of volume. Granted, that still makes the limitation based on print elements instead of digital- but because the content overlaps between the two, it's still relatively applicable even beyond the aesthetic.

Even if we accept that color can improve any project, the amount of gain from color doesn't seem to compare to the amount of work it'd take for me to add the extra steps. If I have to choose between 100 pages of color done well, and 200 pages of black and white done well (which is about the trade off I'm looking at right now because I'm a slow colorist, a fast inker, and make use of the inherent abstractions of black and white in my layouts)- I'll go with the latter. I have too many stories to tell.

I think it depends entirely on the comic and the comic's artist.
I couldn't do without color in my comic, but I still love other comics that are black and white.

Im biased for colored comics. Because color makes it at least more visually appealing even if the art is crap.

Meanwhile, black and white comics need more art skill in order to make it more visually appealing.

I think this topic is similar to the debate on 3D movies.

It doesn't always make a good comic automatically, there have been an awful lot of people who have done it wrong and if done well it can draw in the reader in a completely different way and do many thing you can only do with colour.

But it can be just as good without it anyway and only trying to do it for the novelty or appeal will only ruin something good to begin with.