Ok, I've been thinking about this for awhile, it's an interesting topic for discussion I think.

The Definition of a Mary Sue from Wikipedia:

A Mary Sue (sometimes just Sue), in literary criticism and particularly in fanfiction, is a fictional character with overly idealized and hackneyed mannerisms, lacking noteworthy flaws, and primarily functioning as wish-fulfillment fantasies for their authors or readers. Perhaps the single underlying feature of all characters described as "Mary Sues" is that they are too ostentatious for the audience's taste, or that the author seems to favor the character too highly. The author may seem to push how exceptional and wonderful the "Mary Sue" character is on his or her audience, sometimes leading the audience to dislike or even resent the character fairly quickly; such a character could be described as an "author's pet".

My questions are:

Do you have a "Mary Sue" in your webcomic?

How do you feel about "Mary Sues" in general? i.e. in other webcomics you may read or your own.

How do prevent one of your characters from becoming a "Mary Sue"?


I think most webcomickers that have a "Mary Sue" sort of stumble into it by accident. I think a character may end up becoming popular unintentionally and the author just keeps feeding into the fan fulfillment of the character.

I've been accused of making "Duncan" a "Mary Sue". And I guess if I really think about it, it's probably true a little bit. I sort of intended the character to just be a plain sidekick type of character, but the more I wrote him the more the character grew on me, so I unwittingly was creating my own "Mary Sue".

Just a few of my thoughts on the matter. I'm curious as to what everyone else thinks.

Im just starting with my comic, so I couldn't say if I have a Mary Sue. Certainly I hope not, since Sues are usually poorly writen characters and most of the time anoying...

I've founded this tests quite usefull in order to avoid Sues:

http://www.springhole.net/quizzes/marysue.htm [springhole.net]

http://www.katfeete.net/writing/marysue.html [katfeete.net]

I'm desperately trying not to. But I think I do.

You got your average every-day ordinary team of super lynx working for the Gods.

1.) The leader
2.) The strong man
3.) The cocky guy

So in a way, I do. But it's much deeper than that (At least, I think it is)

After first hearing the term Mary Sue and ready other peoples' original fiction I've developed a weird sort of obsession with Mary Sues. By the the TV tropes entry for Mary Sue is really good and it goes into various types of Sues that you may encounter.
At least according to any available Mary Sue test that I've taken none of my current characters seem to qualify. Partly because I find Mary Sues funny in their own way but I hate writing for characters like that. I used to do a comic which had a protagonist that someone else invented on the spot and had me just go with. She was an angel who's only real character flaw is that she was hedonistic and somewhat lazy. She was frequently upbeat, happy, ageless and indestrucible, which made her kind of fun at first but she got boring real quick.
I introduced another character as supporting cast who had a crummy job delivering pizzas, wasn't very personable, found herself fearing for her life constantly, on a few medications and was possibly bipolar. I started getting more attached to this character and she eventually got a much larger role in the story. Not to say that the comic as a whole didn't suck.

The "Adding lines" sounds more like a Scrappy to me http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheScrappy [tvtropes.org]



*EDIT* dang !!, something is wrong with my browser, everytime i click a format button it sends my post

Someone
Do you have a "Mary Sue" in your webcomic?

Richardo usually fails at even the most simple of tasks.

And all his friends have betrayed him.

And he's being stalked.

So no.

Someone
How do you feel about "Mary Sues" in general? i.e. in other webcomics you may read or your own.

Unless the Sue is used for comedy (to contrast someone with awful luck), they have no place in fiction.

Or they aren't main characters, they just kind of show up for a short while.

Someone
How do prevent one of your characters from becoming a "Mary Sue"?

I injure or disturb him every other comic.

Noooo, I dont have any Mary Sues or Marty Stews at all!

Most superhero characters are Mary Sues, because that's inherent in the teenage wish-fulfillment style of writing of superhero genres. Even heroes with "sad pasts" are just emo-Sues. People in real life don't suddenly get superpowers-from-God to fight back with, just because something bad happens to them or their relatives.

I guess stories like Watchmen are the first to treat superheroes not as Sues. Superheroes the way they're depicted in average comics just can't happen -- you're a vigilante for god's sake.

mlai
Most superhero characters are Mary Sues, because that's inherent in the teenage wish-fulfillment style of writing of superhero genres. Even heroes with "sad pasts" are just emo-Sues. People in real life don't suddenly get superpowers-from-God to fight back with, just because something bad happens to them or their relatives.

I guess stories like Watchmen are the first to treat superheroes not as Sues. Superheroes the way they're depicted in average comics just can't happen -- you're a vigilante for god's sake.

So true. The Watchman really did mess up didn't they? lol

Do you have a "Mary Sue" in your webcomic?

The first chapters of TPCTH had Chase. The annoying kid character to the tee. Oh I hated him so much. In chapter 11 I toned him down a lot. Now it feels like the threat has been neutralized.


How do you feel about "Mary Sues" in general? i.e. in other webcomics you may read or your own.
It's a real let down for me. I remember watching The Real Adventures of Johnny Quest and Spellbinders a long time ago (90's?). Everything was so darn easy for the the main characters! It was to the point that I stopped watching all together. I think Mary Sues can really kill a show or webcomic. It's really something to avoid in main characters.

How do prevent one of your characters from becoming a "Mary Sue"?
Made them fail a bit. Turn the attention of the story away from them for a while if they are a secondary character.

The more they're like me or like idealized me... the more horrible things happen to them, heh.

So no, not really :D

No. Though others who have answered this question are being less than honest.
Though as said before, they do make good comic foils.

Speaking of comic foils, I sort of like the concept of a character that thinks they're a Mary Sue type character but they're actually not. Basically a total jerk that just thinks that they're awesome at everything and that everyone likes them.

patrickdevine
Basically a total jerk that just thinks that they're awesome at everything and that everyone likes them.

Basically 51% of everyone on the internet.

Someone
Do you have a Mary Sue?

....I hope not? XP

mlai

patrickdevine
Basically a total jerk that just thinks that they're awesome at everything and that everyone likes them.

Basically 51% of everyone on the internet.

Yeah! That! Only fictional.

Someone
I think a character may end up becoming popular unintentionally and the author just keeps feeding into the fan fulfillment of the character.

Sounds more like an Ensemble Darkhorse.

If you're using "author favourite" as a qualification, then most stories have a Mary Sue. Most stories, everywhere ,throughout time, in all of history.

I don't think it's that broad, I think Mary Sues are basically wish fulfilment characters: an author proxy.
i.e. what the author would want to be if they could.

I don't know that many characters who fill those qualifications. When they do, it makes for pretty awful writing. But authors just putting a bit of themselves in a character isn't important in that regard, that sort of thing helps with veracity, that's GOOD writing.

I'm not sure you can extend that to audience wish fulfilment... That's too broad as well and sort of weakens the effect of the category.

Hmmm. I don't think I have Mary Sues. What Ozone says is true about the broadness of the statement- authors should love their characters, at least enough to busy themselves with the characters and develop them, and so on. So that is a pretty weak qualifier.

All of my characters have problems and they are never just 'awesome enough' to handle the trouble on their own. So I guess that rules that qualifier out too.

So no, methinks I got no Mary Sue on board. (But the Fiens sisters may think they are. XD)


As for how I think of Mary Sues... well, as a cute pre-pubescent stage in the development of an author. Nothing more, nothing less. Everyone goes through it and needs to outgrow it before they can write something that a broader audience than they and their friends can read.

To prevent a character from becoming a Mary Sue I think is easily done if that character is allowed to develop as a real person. Nobody is perfect, nobody does everything right, everyone has something they fear/loathe/detest/feel inadequate at. Decide which things these are, be consistent, and you are pretty much Mary Sue-proof. :P

Claudita is like my "Mary Sue" character.

Ironically, I originally planned her to just have a short stint and thats it. But I ended up loving her (not in a crazy romantic way but as a character lol! ).

I'm... not sure. I think some of my characters might seem like Mary Sues at first glance, but I made sure they all have their quirks and weaknesses, because perfect characters who can do anything are just boring. I really, really dislike them, they can completely ruin a whole story/comic for me.

I mean sure, I've got characters I like more than others, but that's no excuse to make them perfect. Most of the time, I actually like them so much because of their flaws.

Well, the only recurring characters I have in my comics right now are Air Raid Robertson and Ridley. So far my strip kind of pokes fun at how much of a dope Air Raid Robertson is. More than some of the poking is done by Ridley.

I don't think that Air Raid Robertson is a Mary Sue. Maybe he is though. Things always seem to work out in his favor no matter how inept, oblivious, or unprepared he happens to be. I'd certainly like that to be the case for me.

Ridley, on the other hand, is a sidekick. I don't think anyone has fantasies about being a sidekick. We all want to be the stars of our own lives.

I don't think so. My characters are their own people. Individuals. Not faultless but not stereotypes. I let my characters evolve. The lack of a "main character" I believe has helped out because I am telling the stories of multiple interactions, not a single character. To have a Mary Sue, you almost have to have a *star,* and my story has no star. I also don't have any characters (at least I think I don't) that everyone likes or everyone hates.

When I was in high school, I think some characters in my stories were unfortunately Mary Sue-ish (so tragic you want to slap them), but I didn't know about such things then.

LOL i've never heard of this but apparently I'm guilty of this on a small level. I scored 28 for Slugo on that test. Here I thought I was really mean to my characters. I did way better on the second test tho...

mlai
Most superhero characters are Mary Sues, because that's inherent in the teenage wish-fulfillment style of writing of superhero genres. Even heroes with "sad pasts" are just emo-Sues. People in real life don't suddenly get superpowers-from-God to fight back with, just because something bad happens to them or their relatives.

I guess stories like Watchmen are the first to treat superheroes not as Sues. Superheroes the way they're depicted in average comics just can't happen -- you're a vigilante for god's sake.

That doesn't seem to be the case with my characters...but they are villains...hmmm.

Really though, I honestly hope my characters aren't sues! I like to think that they aren't but hey, I'm the creator! Just like when a parent sides with the rowdy child when a teacher calls them for a meeting, authors usually love their characters no matter what. Meanwhile, the audience is collectively 'face-palm-ing' at how sue-ish the character really is.

I really like your snakeman drawing. :D

I love variations of snakeman/lizardman drawings. Typically they range from scaly humanoids with really reptilian heads, to scaly humanoids who look like they have latex bumps on their faces... I like both!

/OT

Considering I don't really have any permanant characters, unless you count my extreme playground games guys, I don't think I do.

But I probably have had a mary-sue somewhere. I'm just not recognizing it as one.

i dont think Bones really qualifies much. maby in some aspects, but i dont think he's the first person ya think of when ya think of Mary Sue. i mean his name aint Mary OR Sue..pffftt,what's up with that?

he did come up from a pretty Mary Sue character,but i do adore him. BIG TIME, im sure that can contribute to some Mary Sue tendencies.

Do you have a "Mary Sue" in your webcomic?

I don't think so.

I'm still in the early stages of my story, trying to set everything up, but I think it's apparent that all the characters I've introduced so far have something off/flawed about them. Actually, it's the problems and faults that my characters have that I plan to use to drive the story.

How do you feel about "Mary Sues" in general? i.e. in other webcomics you may read or your own.

I don't really like them, but I have to admit that sometimes they work.

Sometimes in some romance comics for example (I'm speaking generally here), you have the main female character that's pretty, talented, and so charming that you naturally want her to find her "true-love" or whatever. XD I don't know, that's the first type of "Mary Sue" that comes to my mind.

But naturally, sometimes these "perfect" characters get on my nerves because, of course, no one's perfect!

How do prevent one of your characters from becoming a "Mary Sue"?

I really don't know. D:

But like I stated before, I think giving characters apparent flaws helps to make them a little more real and the story more interesting. :D

While I find Mary Sues to be pretty boring and generic, I do like it when the character turns out to have a darker side, or some tragic past or whatever. It usually makes that character more interesting when you realize the one-dimensionality is just a front.

Do you have a "Mary Sue" in your web comic?
I really try not to, but I just took the test for all my main characters, and it seems that Lord Fluffington, the one who I least expected to be a Mary Sue, is in fact a Mary Sue. I guess I should have seen that coming, since he is the human embodiment of awesome XD.


How do you feel about "Mary Sues" in general? i.e. in other web comics you may read or your own.
Generally, they annoy me, and just show lazy or self-indulgent writing. It wouldn't be so bad if the author wasn't so attached and couldn't bring them self to hurt them, or place them in any kind of real danger.


How do prevent one of your characters from becoming a "Mary Sue"?
I guess the most important thing to do is to make sure they aren't one dimensional, and to try not to base a character off yourself unless you think that you'll be able to torment and kill that character if the need should arise.