I was just wondering if any of you have (or have ever thought of) dividing up full length comic pages (11x17 old school type art) into smaller two or three panel chunks for more frequent updates?

It makes sense in that the web is more akin to a daily newspaper than a monthly print book, and there have always been serialized strips that run every day in newspapers. Also, more updates help keep readers interested by remembering the story. This could also lead to more exposure and more casual readers happening by to check out a comic if it's more frequently updated.

The negatives are that maybe it would be annoying to readers knowing they're only getting a piece of the real page (I don't know?). Or maybe it would be seen as a cheap stab at pimping more page hits (getting 2 or 3 times for the same page - again I don't know?). Also, I can't speak for everybody, but I try to make each page stand on its own with a little tag in the last panel to make the reader "turn" the page (I'm not always successful but that's the goal anyhow). That would be out the window if I cut up my pages.

I'm just a really slow artist and with all my other commitments, I can only manage about one page a week. I feel I lose momentum by posting a page only once a week so I've been mulling over breaking my pages up for maybe two updates a week.

Any thoughts?

I think if you did that with yours, it would read like one of those classic serialized strips in the daily papers. ;) Which might work out, since it's all old-school anyway. (Or at least I think so.) You might have to tweak the script to have it make sense day-to-day, as opposed to just chopping up a finished page.

Personally, I wouldn't do it. I'm so used to working full page- with 6/7 panels; I'd have to change the way I write completely. I think the pressure of needing to have a punchline or "tag" as ya call it in every strip would affect the narrative in a negative way. Plus I just prefer the way full-page comics look.

I'm terribly slow with my drawings as well. I've actually been thinking the opposite in terms of timing. One drawback of web-comics that are not gag or strip in nature, is following pieces of the story presented so slowly. As a reader I find it frustrating. As a creator, I end up infuriated with myself. I think we underestimate the attention span of our audience.
Print comic stories are delivered monthly with each issue containing (hopefully) one complete arc. Rather than one rushed page a week, what if we delivered a full story twelve times a year? Personally I think most of us would end up with a higher quality production and our page-counts, if that's a motivating factor, would spike higher initially and then at least meet our average in the waning days.
Are you any less likely to check out a consistently, high-quality comic updated on the 1st of the month than a hit-and-miss comic updated every Sunday? Honestly, I'd rather take a look at 12-24 pages once a month than one rambling page a week. I'm certainly guilty but I think it's time we take a studied look at our approach. Updating regularly is a kind of competition in the web-comics world but I don't feel it's a service.

Either way though, your readers are still only getting the same amount of story.

I think I would find it more irritating if someone were breaking up their page in a way that it wasn't intended to be read just so they could have more updates.

I can only manage about two updates a week. Would I like to do more? Yes, but I have other obligations as do many other webcomic creators.

It's not like very many of us are earning a living from this. If you are, then you may make frequent updates more of a priority. I'm not, so the most I can crank out is two pages a week, and I think that's reasonable.

I think if you can only update once a week, that's fine. As long as you're pretty steady I think that's all most readers are looking for.

I think it's when you update sporadically, that's when you have a tendency to lose readers.

zaymac
Either way though, your readers are still only getting the same amount of story.

I think I would find it more irritating if someone were breaking up their page in a way that it wasn't intended to be read just so they could have more updates.

I can only manage about two updates a week. Would I like to do more? Yes, but I have other obligations as do many other webcomic creators.

It's not like very many of us are earning a living from this. If you are, then you may make frequent updates more of a priority. I'm not, so the most I can crank out is two pages a week, and I think that's reasonable.

I think if you can only update once a week, that's fine. As long as you're pretty steady I think that's all most readers are looking for.

I think it's when you update sporadically, that's when you have a tendency to lose readers.

I hear what you're saying, but what if you don't update sporadically? What if, it's less frequent but the whole, beautiful enchilada gets posted at once? We've got this ingrained, once-a-week culture going in web-comics and there's no reason supporting it as the right approach, except that most of us work for free and its a proven way to manage a standard of page views. I promise that most people want to hear the beginning, middle and end in one sitting. It's a campfire truth. There's a guy with a hook for a hand and you're not interested in what he's up to a week later.

Just an observation/experience: I have readers that, even when I was updating 7 days a week, said they preferred reading my comic in clumps and would check in only every few weeks to read.

I have to say that I prefer getting a fair bit of story at once too. It makes it easier to follow. It is also much better for new readers who want to browse the archive. Clicking between all the pages can get very tiresome if there isn't that much on each page. Every click has to load the whole webpage (not just the image).

parkbenchbook
I hear what you're saying, but what if you don't update sporadically? What if, it's less frequent but the whole, beautiful enchilada gets posted at once? We've got this ingrained, once-a-week culture going in web-comics and there's no reason supporting it as the right approach, except that most of us work for free and its a proven way to manage a standard of page views. I promise that most people want to hear the beginning, middle and end in one sitting. It's a campfire truth. There's a guy with a hook for a hand and you're not interested in what he's up to a week later.

I'm not sure I get what you're trying to say here. Obviously everyone wants to read a story in one sitting, but most webcomics don't work that way.

If you wanna do that, than you should complete the story first and then upload it all at once.

The reason most people gravitate towards publishing their stuff on the web is because it's easier to build an audience and most people don't have the funds to self publish.

You could obviously upload a complete story, I just think you may have a harder time finding an audience.

I think it works better to build an audience for your comic. Then you may be able to release the story later in TPB form. Just my opinion.

I would MUCH rather be fed the comic a little bit at a time at regular intervals of a week or less, than wait a LONG time for a mass update.

There is no reason to spread the update out and publish en masse like that on the web. If you do enough art work to publish that much at one time, then you are certainly capable of posting smaller more frequent updates.



Also, I have no problem with comics that only update weekly. If the page is broken down into subpages it can lose a bit of its charm. There is a lot of importance put into the layout/design of the page and the flow of the page that cutting it into smaller pieces might destroy that.

I'm of the opinion that each page should be a work of art unto itself. The individual panels are each their own pieces of art which are placed together to make a cohesive whole. The way the eyes move through the page is important as well as issues such as balance and composition.

One more quick point on this.

I think (My opinion, not everyone can do this with their story) you have to approach the story a bit differently when you write for the web.

When you are only getting one or two updates a week, I kind of wanna see stuff happen.

That's just how I feel. I try to have almost a mini cliffhanger at the end of one of my pages at least once in every five pages. That way the reader wants to come back. They can't wait to see what happens next.

Now I know every story can't work this way. My comic is sort of a testosterone fueled joyride that hopefully can propel the story forward as well as be highly entertaining at the same time.

This doesn't work with every story, I'm just saying how I approach things.

zaymac

parkbenchbook
I hear what you're saying, but what if you don't update sporadically? What if, it's less frequent but the whole, beautiful enchilada gets posted at once? We've got this ingrained, once-a-week culture going in web-comics and there's no reason supporting it as the right approach, except that most of us work for free and its a proven way to manage a standard of page views. I promise that most people want to hear the beginning, middle and end in one sitting. It's a campfire truth. There's a guy with a hook for a hand and you're not interested in what he's up to a week later.

I'm not sure I get what you're trying to say here. Obviously everyone wants to read a story in one sitting, but most webcomics don't work that way.

If you wanna do that, than you should complete the story first and then upload it all at once.

The reason most people gravitate towards publishing their stuff on the web is because it's easier to build an audience and most people don't have the funds to self publish.

You could obviously upload a complete story, I just think you may have a harder time finding an audience.

I think it works better to build an audience for your comic. Then you may be able to release the story later in TPB form. Just my opinion.

Zaymac,
I don't think you're missing anything that I'm saying, actually. I just need to clarify and, of course, you may not agree.
The only points we differ on are "obviously everyone wants to read a story in one sitting, but most webcomics don't work that way" and "you could obviously upload a complete story, I just think you may have a harder time finding an audience."
Most web-comics don't work that way but there's no reason they can't. For many of us, we're paid in page views. I feel that an entire story posted at once would result in record numbers for that day and at least the regular average until the next month. I'm not discussing a print strategy, except that this argument follows a more traditional approach.
Based on my experience, I don't think it would be any harder finding an audience. If everyone obviously desires to read a story from start to finish, we would win over more readers by presenting it in that format. I always get the same average views per day. However, I'm awful at updating. When I do finally, the page views multiply by about 4-5%. Imagine if instead of one page per month it was 4-8 (to be fair)? I strongly believe that as a general tendency, monthly updating would be more successful and productive for the majority of creators and the medium.

I guess it depends on whether the comic lends itself to being presented in that way. If it doesn't then it will be very apparent that it's just a cheap ploy to boost pageviews artificially.

The worst example of this I can remember was Hero By Night. It was a pretty good comic (no longer updated for reasons which have been covered to death elsewhere) and already had many, many readers. (Even without updates it's still a permanent feature of DD's Top 10!) But then it began posting one strip of a page at a time. The comic clearly wasn't designed to be read in this way but, because its fans were loyal, they seemed to accept it. However, it then took this a step further and began posting one panel at a time, each one being posted at a different time of the day.

This very transparent attempt to get readers to visit the same page three times in the same day was not popular with readers. Some grumbled, some just ignored it and contented themselves with visiting later when all three panels were finally up. Eventually, the practice was abandoned.

The lesson to be learned, I think, is that it's important to present your work in the best way possible (taking into account your own pace of work, obviously). Don't let other factors such as pageviews influence you in this respect. Having ten pageviews generated by ten readers who visit your comic once a week is better than having 30 pageviews if those are generated by only six readers coming by five times a week.

*************************

EDIT: From my own experience, I've had to reduce the update schedule for Shades from twice a week to once a week. This has obviously meant fewer page views and, therefore, a drop in the rankings (not that it was ever very high anyway!) The important thing, however, is that it hasn't affected the total number of readers. As measured by the number of people who have "favourited" the comic, this number has remained fairly constant with an extra one or two being added each month.

I was going to make a joke about taking things to the extreme and posting one panel every day seven days a week just to be annoying. LOL. I didn't think anybody would actually do that.

Great points brought up in this thread. For me, I think I'm just going to stick with once a week. It's tempting to break things up, but I think in my case, my pages are designed to be viewed as exactly that: complete pages. Plus, for new readers down the road, going through an archive of multi-panels would be a daunting task. Page views and ranking is a plus of course (if just for the sake of promotion) but slow and steady gets the job done too, I trust.

Idk if anyone mentioned this, but if you start cutting up your pages you cant do splash pages...or interesting layouts...which may not matter when you post online but when you try to put it together into a book it will.

I like this discussion a lot, especially what Zaymac, parkbenchbook and Usedbooks were getting at.

Usedbooks
Just an observation/experience: I have readers that, even when I was updating 7 days a week, said they preferred reading my comic in clumps and would check in only every few weeks to read.

I have to say that I prefer getting a fair bit of story at once too. It makes it easier to follow. It is also much better for new readers who want to browse the archive. Clicking between all the pages can get very tiresome if there isn't that much on each page. Every click has to load the whole webpage (not just the image).

For my story, Anatta, I am always afraid that it's less enjoyable for the readers that read every page individually as I post them because the story is not meant to be read that way. The story is hugely overarcing and builds upon itself. All of the pages are suppose to be read collectively. To read one page every week, I don't think would have the same effect. So I actually hope my readers would read the comic in chunks.

But of course, that means less daily pageloads for me and I am sadden by that. However, I do hope it would retain new readers easier since the story is more comprehensive this way. I am hoping that this approach will benefit the comic more in the long run.

So I think it really depends on the type of comic you are doing. Some stories can be cut into strips, some really can't. I do think that comics that are strip format, with pages that stand-alone do benefit more from the webcomic format because it requires very little time investment to read the comic. You can read the whole think from beginning to end or you can just read a few strips at the end. With overarcing stories, you really have to read from the very beginning and that does require some effort and time.

threeeyeswurm
For my story, Anatta, I am always afraid that it's less enjoyable for the readers that read every page individually as I post them because the story is not meant to be read that way. The story is hugely overarcing and builds upon itself. All of the pages are suppose to be read collectively. To read one page every week, I don't think would have the same effect. So I actually hope my readers would read the comic in chunks.

Some of my favorite comics I read in chunks. But my favorite favorites I tend to not be able to wait that long. ;)

I re-read pages of Anatta after I read yer updated page, to refresh my memory- if that makes you feel any better. But I do the same thing as you, I think- "The Hub" is actually intended to be a print comic, and I write it that way. It kinda bugs me, since I think sometimes it moves really slowly, and jokes or references that are made on say, page seven and pop up again on page twenty- I don't think they work as well in web format, since that's like, a couple months' gap! But I'm stubborn. I ain't changin'. lol!

Hyena H_ll
I re-read pages of Anatta after I read yer updated page, to refresh my memory- if that makes you feel any better.

I wish everyone was as cool as you Hyena! :)

Hyena H_ll
But I do the same thing as you, I think- "The Hub" is actually intended to be a print comic, and I write it that way. It kinda bugs me, since I think sometimes it moves really slowly, and jokes or references that are made on say, page seven and pop up again on page twenty- I don't think they work as well in web format, since that's like, a couple months' gap! But I'm stubborn. I ain't changin'. lol!

I know exactly what you mean. Sometimes I feel like the page I uploaded is not good and won't be popular because the page, by itself, isn't that attractive. I have to remind myself to have patience. :\

threeeyeswurm
Sometimes I feel like the page I uploaded is not good and won't be popular because the page, by itself, isn't that attractive. I have to remind myself to have patience. :\

I feel the same way. For instance if I have three pages of dialogue between two dramatic action scenes, in a print book that's just a minute or so of the reader's time. On the web updating once a week, that's three weeks of talking and I feel like things just grind to a halt. You're right. Patience is key. At least that's what I keep telling myself.

Glimmer started with a one-a-week schedule and then I decided to cut the pages up so I could update it three times a week. I was producing the same amount of work, just with more frequent updates.

I decided that was a pretty bad idea and after a while you begin to draw the same characters more efficiently, allowing me to pump out full pages. I'm contemplating dropping three pages a week, because I hate updating so much, and moving to once a week updates with three full pages instead of one. Personally, I prefer to read material in chunks I won't read comics that get updated daily until the weekend.

repoman
I feel the same way. For instance if I have three pages of dialogue between two dramatic action scenes, in a print book that's just a minute or so of the reader's time. On the web updating once a week, that's three weeks of talking and I feel like things just grind to a halt. You're right. Patience is key. At least that's what I keep telling myself.

I don't think a set of pages with lots of dialogue is a problem. You just need to keep them visually interesting. Keep varying camera angles, pay attention to facial expressions, body language (pose etc.), if they're talking about something, you can draw that something in a panel and put the dialogue bit as a caption etc.

Or, if you really want to do some action, you could try to mix both... for example a character in a fight remembering a conversation from yesterday... then you can even overlay bits of dialogue over the punches or even play with words, for example during a punch you could have a "so what's the punchline?" question popping up in a caption OR someone stating "I'm sure he'd get a kick out of that" during a kick or something.

There's plenty of options there.

Hmmmmm...most of the thoughts here are good points. The main goal of ANY comic is the storytelling, regardless of style, plot, size, etc.

Just cutting up pages to increase page views or whatever, seems counter-productive unless your story is designed to be read that way. Comic strip artists and comic book artists have completely different approaches to their craft in terms of what they need to convey in a given strip or page to keep their readers interested. If you design a page as a page--that's what the reader should get. I don't believe there's much value in any other arrangement.

As a side note, the first Superman comic story was chopped up and re-arranged from the original strip format, and you can really tell from the storytelling. If you'd like to be able to make more frequent entries, create a backlog of pages so you have a few in case you get behind, and you'll still be able to print the whole thing as you intended it to be read; and as the readers saw it.

blah blah blah....