I don't actually have a lot of experience doing a comic, but as a reader, daily comics frustrate me. Why?

Well, an artist creates the panels of a comics so the story flows the way they want it to. You could set up a scene perfectly, but on the web, it won't matter much. The daily format screws up the timing of the panels.

A print artist can tell how much time a reader takes to process each panel. Large panels, for instance, take up more time, and are good for dramatic shots. But webcomics have a disadvantage here. Because that last panel that was supposed to last 5 seconds gains about another 12 hours! The reader comes back the NEXT DAY to read the comic again. This puts a huge pause in the story. It's like having a commercial break in your comic, only unlike tv shows, this break happens after only a minute and a half of viewing.

I was wondering if putting comics into chapters would be better. You update 15 comics or so a month, and then readers wait for the next chapter. It would be more fun to read this way, but would the lack of updates screw up any chance of getting a large readership?

It depends. Update schedule does not mess up the "flow" if it is written with a webcomic format in mind. If you are writing/drawing your comic the same way you would for a printed version, then, yes, it will flow differently. Many webcomic artists create largish pages, so major events happen in each update -- especially if they are on a weekly, monthly, or sporadic schedule.

I'm not saying to change the way you write your comic just because it's online. In fact, I run into the problem myself in writing, as I do write like a novel (considering chapters) without too much happening on any single page. However, I would find updating less often would make my comic an agonizing read.

Most webcomic readers do enjoy a daily update, but some like to read in chunks or by chapters. So, you could either cater to them (and/or encourage the same behavior from other readers) by uploading a bunch of pages or an entire chapter at a time or you could do daily updates and let them read it at their own pace. The "chapter readers" will check in once a month or so to do their reading (which is probably how often you'd be updating if you did a chapter at a time).

I prefer to do the latter myself, as it seems the most likely way people don't miss pages -- and I love getting comments and regular feedback. And, like I mentioned, people who prefer reading many pages at once will do so on their own.

(Plus, I know I that personally like to read pages at one a day. It makes it easier to follow many comics and I don't have to invest a lot of time. It's easy to find a few minutes a day but not so easy to find a half hour or hour all in one sitting. That's the reason a lot of people like reading webcomics.)

I don't agree for a number of reasons, but you bring up some valid points.

1. This isn't good for keeping old readers/getting pageviews/advertisements etc.

If you have an interest in maintaining a fanbase over the story flow then weekly/3days per week/etc updates are best. Most people will not bookmark or check back to see a comic that updates once per month(i assume) with 15 comics. They'll check back eventually but not nearly as much as frequent updated comics would.
So if you're interested in gaining $ from advertisements and letting your comic gain popularity by a word of the mouth buzz keep the updates frequent.

2. They blow through it so fast
I used to read PAWN when it still updated, he updated every two months with a chapter of 30 comics. I read through the whole thing in under 7 minutes and went 'well okee then, not checking back for another two months' and that was it. I'm not the only one who does this, and everyone here has probably plowed through a comics archives and barely looked over each pages art and appreciated the composition, they just wanted to get on with the story, and they did.
Daily updates or less eliminates that, your readers are presented with a page and have time to look it over and see all the details rather then mash the next button. ANNND your new readers have an archive to trudge through leading us too:

3.you can design a story for daily/weekly/etc updates and still have a good archive story
You can actually have a story that's good while reading AND good for checking back too.( lackadaisy, khaos komix, penny/aggie, etc) Though these comics are better with archiving as a new reader you can still keep up with them.
There are comics that have such slow, drawn out pacing that archiving is the ideal choice. For example Gunnerkrig court, though an amazing and fun comic on the batch read-through, is boring as hell when you're caught up. (no offense to Tom, i still love this comic)

So those are the reasons i prefer non-batch updates but with exceptions.

Yeah, I guess it would be hard to advertise...or to keep anyone coming back, for that matter.

I know that webcomic artists design their pages so they fit the daily reading style, but I just get frustrated with comics that update 3 times a week and their pages look like this:

Guy: You shouldn't have told me this.

Girl (extreme close up that takes up 3/4s of the page) : I had to!!!

Manga webcomics seem to only have about 3 panels or so, with about 2 lines of dialog. I just think that you should fit in a decent amount of text on a page.

@ Metalbender:

Just do what many ppl do. Finish the archives of a comic you like, then don't check back for many months. By the time you remember it again and check, there will be a bunch of new pages/chapters to read.

I think a good analogy would be ppl who buy the monthly issues of comics, vs ppl who wait for the graphic novel collection.

Metalbender92
I don't actually have a lot of experience doing a comic, but as a reader, daily comics frustrate me. Why?

Well, an artist creates the panels of a comics so the story flows the way they want it to. You could set up a scene perfectly, but on the web, it won't matter much. The daily format screws up the timing of the panels.

A print artist can tell how much time a reader takes to process each panel. Large panels, for instance, take up more time, and are good for dramatic shots. But webcomics have a disadvantage here. Because that last panel that was supposed to last 5 seconds gains about another 12 hours! The reader comes back the NEXT DAY to read the comic again. This puts a huge pause in the story. It's like having a commercial break in your comic, only unlike tv shows, this break happens after only a minute and a half of viewing.

I was wondering if putting comics into chapters would be better. You update 15 comics or so a month, and then readers wait for the next chapter. It would be more fun to read this way, but would the lack of updates screw up any chance of getting a large readership?

i totally agree with you dude, but i have alternative points to add. take for example my comic KFK (Kung Fu Komix). It is designed to read like a light breezy manga. But instead, doing a once a day format forces the story to slow down. Also, it can have disastrous effects on both the readers and the artist.

For example, I need space when i tell a story. 9 panels a page is alright if thats what you are doing but i like big bold strokes. I use 4 panels a page at the max, the averag is 2.

Now, lets say you are a reader and im updating once a day. you wait all day for my next update, go to read it an...its 2 panels? youre going to be like WTF this wasnt worth the wait. and so me, as the artist, will feel like i have to sacrifice my storytelling to fulfill your desire.

But on the plus side, i have noticed that the one a day updates do seem to add more weight and depth to my comic than i intended. I sit there and go "wow this page is alot more dramatic now that it sits up there for a longer time and forces the reader to actually study it"

so its hit or miss.

I'm so used to the pace of webcomics that it's a non-issue with me regardless of the update schedule (as long as the schedule is specified and maintained). I do, however, feel a bit gypped when I wait for a once-a-week comic to update, and I get a one panel page of...not really anything. Yes, I can appreciate the art and time that went into the splash page, but...*sniff*

Now, this blind acceptance of webcomic pace could have a lot to do with the fact that I didn't read hard copy comics growing up and only got into the idea of comics once I was introduced to specific webcomics. Yup.

amanda
I do, however, feel a bit gypped when I wait for a once-a-week comic to update, and I get a one panel page of...not really anything. Yes, I can appreciate the art and time that went into the splash page, but...*sniff*

uh oh.... o.O

Guilty == me


I do find comics that update daily a little difficult to catch up with. But I appreciate the work that the person is putting into the comic. I could never do a daily comic. I'm too slow. There aren't enough hours in the day. When it takes me 5-8 hours for one page (spread across many days) I just don't have time. For anyone who can manage that, I have great respect. Though I prefer a two or three day per week update schedule. I know, I'm weird, but it SEEMS easier to me to plan my comic perusal according to specific schedules. :)

Loud_G

amanda
I do, however, feel a bit gypped when I wait for a once-a-week comic to update, and I get a one panel page of...not really anything. Yes, I can appreciate the art and time that went into the splash page, but...*sniff*

uh oh.... o.O

Guilty == me

I'm pretty sure she means story comics. ;-) Gag comics should be self-contained jokes. As long as you get your laugh for the day/week, it doesn't matter if it takes one panel or three or more (but honestly, on a non-story strip, the longer it takes to get to the punchline, the worse it is, imo).

Story comics are ENTIRELY different and really the subject of this thread because "pacing" is not something a gag-strip needs to worry about unless it is doing a story arc -- and even then it isn't really important because each strip should still be self-contained and have a punchline. Daily comics for a gag-strip can be excessive. One to three a week are usually just great. ;)

In a story comic, the plot needs to develop at an acceptable pace, so one to two panels or splash pages are really frustrating to readers, particularly if updates are infrequent. You have to develop an appreciation for the art in order to make up for a slow pacing story -- which is what happens in webcomics, so webcomic artists have to step up their art a bit to compensate. Or build up a buffer to make updates more frequent.

My favorite way of updating was 2 comics per week, that was a blast! That also hasn't been possible since last year but it's my ideal. Weekly is still a very close second.

The readers want content. They understand that the nature of webcomics is in "seriel" format, going from page to page. In that regard, it's probably more like old school radio programming than comic books or tv cartoons. But readers are loyal and if you provide the content, they will keep coming back and giving feedback.

It sounds like you would benefit from relaxing a bit on the expectations. Just allow yourself to adapt to the webcomics environment here on DD, forget print comics and just do what you enjoy at a pace you can maintain.

People will not enjoy reading short spurts of 15 pages at a time. In fact, it will be annoying to most people. In my opinion, that approach is not worth it. B)

And that's true in print comics as well. As much as I liked The Death of Superman back in the early 1990s, the fact that they had a 22 page comic and 20 pages were splash pages was really disappointing.

usedbooks
I'm pretty sure she means story comics. ;-) Gag comics should be self-contained jokes. As long as you get your laugh for the day/week, it doesn't matter if it takes one panel or three or more (but honestly, on a non-story strip, the longer it takes to get to the punchline, the worse it is, imo).

Story comics are ENTIRELY different and really the subject of this thread because "pacing" is not something a gag-strip needs to worry about unless it is doing a story arc -- and even then it isn't really important because each strip should still be self-contained and have a punchline. Daily comics for a gag-strip can be excessive. One to three a week are usually just great. ;)

In a story comic, the plot needs to develop at an acceptable pace, so one to two panels or splash pages are really frustrating to readers, particularly if updates are infrequent. You have to develop an appreciation for the art in order to make up for a slow pacing story -- which is what happens in webcomics, so webcomic artists have to step up their art a bit to compensate. Or build up a buffer to make updates more frequent.

I'm probably one of the only people not bothered by splash pages in comics as long as the story continues to progress. A bunch of splash panels just to showcase the pretty art won't cut it for me though. You've gotta keep it moving.

Sometimes, you get a whole crapload of panels, but the art is all scrunched up to fit, and the dialog has to be trimmed to make room without eliminating characters altogether. That, I also don't like.

And, I confess, I was raised on print comics, so my definition of a good webcomic page is different than most. Things always look different if you're reading it all at once then if you're waiting a week for a new page. Webcomics have the challenge of trying to bridge that strange gap.

It's not easy, making each and every page worth the wait, and yet having it all read smoothly when read at once. Only a few select webcomics even manage to do it right in my opinion.

Metalbender92
A print artist can tell how much time a reader takes to process each panel. Large panels, for instance, take up more time, and are good for dramatic shots.

Actually, no. You can't really control the time, because everyone reads in a different fashion. Some people read the text first and then look at the art, some start with art and then read the text. Some view the entire page or even both pages at once (thus you should never reveal anything suprising in the middle of a page or on the right side page and keep it for after the page turn) and some start at the upper left corner and strictly follow the panels without allowing themselves to glance at any other panels. there are also people who quickly breeze through the book and basically focus on the basics of what's happening and then return to marvel at the art (if it's worthy to marvel at it). While yet others slowly read every panel, try to discover every tiny detail and perhaps even flip to previous pages to find inconsistencies or hidden clues to the story's mystery.

Of course you have SOME control. While. Large panels might read longer than the small ones, overall page-turning rate is higher. But you can make a splash-page comic read slow too. Rather than focus on action scenes and have them throw punches on the next 10 consecutive pages, focus on presenting the settings, use longer chains of word balloons (entire conversation placed on a single splash page that shows the attitude of the characters rather than the action) and use a lot of narration (but not TOO much of course).

Anyway, while the lack of control over time might be limiting at times, at other times it's pretty good. You can stretch out a single moment into eternity, or wrap an entire year in a couple of panels. You can do things that would look awkward or boring in cinema. As spectacular the fights in the second matrix are, you can only take so many slow motion moments before the whole thing starts to drag. In comics, especially in graphic novel format, you can use as many pages as you require. As long as you can write and draw it in an interesting way.

Personally I try to make sure that the pages end in such fashion, that the reader has to check the next one to see what happened. Doesn't work always, but I had couple of friends shouting at me "you bastard, where's the next page!" so I guess I must be doing someting right :D
At the same time I try to remember that I'll be collecting this in print form, so I try to keep the big reveals for after the page turns. If you want the sudden resurrection of some character to be suprising, you need to put it on the left side, after the page turn (that's even numbered pages, odd numbered ones go on the right side).

I still have no solution for double-page spreads, or panels that go across both pages (often used as a wide establishing shot showing you the entire panorama, followed by the rest of the page being split traditionally into two pages)... Which kinda worries me, a my second script (originally written with a miniseries in mind) uses these.

the best way to make sure you can update daily is have ALOT of buffer pages for the days when you dont get anything done. Like on KFK, Im about 70 pages ahead of myself....thats about 2 months i can still update if i decide to sit back on my ass before i have to worry about getting anything done! It's a big stress reliever

I should clarify - when serials are only once-a-week, I feel gypped when it's one panel of nothing. Loud_G, you're not an offender - George is usually 1-2 panels, so I'm not expecting anything longer/bigger. (Plus it's awesome, so no worries.)

NickGuy
the best way to make sure you can update daily is have ALOT of buffer pages for the days when you dont get anything done. Like on KFK, Im about 70 pages ahead of myself....thats about 2 months i can still update if i decide to sit back on my ass before i have to worry about getting anything done! It's a big stress reliever

I think that's a good point. Having a queue of pages "just in case" is a good plan if you're planning on updating frequently.

I feel the frustration. Especially with story comics, which tradtionally are read all in one sitting. My initial inclination when I decided to do a comic was to update in chunks... 5 pages or so. I was advised against this by a wise individual.

Unfortunately webcomics lend themselves better to strips than to long form stories. That;s just something we have to live with. For me, only being able to get two pages up a week, I've adapted, and write my pages with this in mind.

When i write a page, I consider that some one will read the page and not read another page for 2-4 days. So I'll write the overall story, and then focus on the pages individually, rather than having a whole story and just piecing it onto pages as it flows. A lot of times I'll go so far as to set up a chart and say "this is what needs to happen, i have this many pages to do it in" and then I'll break the various events down to what page they're on.

That's my approach. I feel that is the best way to address the daily reader as well as the overall story (for print or archives). Its a little structure, but it works for me. I think that adapting to the format a bit makes the difference from a webcomic, and just being a comic that is on the web, y'know?

While a webcomic has to pay more attention to the stand-alone integrity of a page, print comics have to be mindful of it as well.

A single page is like a sentence. It has its own pace and structure within the larger framework of the story/issue. Doesn't matter whether it's print or web.