Does anyone else struggle with this as much as I do? I usually have someone proofread my comics before I post them because there's usually something that I'm not sure how clear it is. Then, there's usually something that confuses people that I didn't expect. Did the scene just change unexpectedly? Is Ollie a girl or a boy? My comics are as clear as mud!

Its actually clear compared to most comics I've seen.

The things that dont make a comic clear are:
- Too much speech baloons and words on a page
- Sometimes action scenes are hard to understand.

Especially when I was really bad at drawing backgrounds/scenery, my readers kinda lost time/location, since I will switch scenes between characters, etc. I fixed this by adding little lead-ins where necessary. (Like "A few minutes later on the other side of town..." ) Sometimes, people don't realize when we're in a flashback -- which can cause a lot of confusion.

People don't usually confuse my characters' identity or anything -- unless it's a flashback. When they change clothes/hair/etc. or are in a different time period, I make sure to have them use each others' names when talking early in the scene.

The only problem I usually have is speech bubbles, but I've worked on that.

I don't really do backgrounds, just random colours sometimes. I may show a background early on so that people know where this is all happening, but otherwise, I don't waste my time.

I sometimes get people confusing species, but it's hard to convey species when you have such a cartoony style. Some people can tell what one of my characters is, but others can't.

The thing I have to watch out for clothing. Since most of my characters actually DO have a unique design, but re onl y differentiated by small differences it can make things difficult. That's why Mason wasn't colored in when he fougth Garret despite the fact that he wears all black as well. It was so the reader could tel them apart. Why Olbaid's hair wasn't colored in despite being black? The world may never know. But I think we can all have clarity, but in action it gets bad, especially when you focus on foot work or handwork.

You know how in comics, characters call each other by name much more than real ppl in real life (or even on TV)? I wonder why that is.

Real life/ TV: "Hey wazzup? Hey you seen that new movie?"
Comics: "Hey John wazzup? Hey John you seen that new movie?"

I deliberately try not to do that recently, and it's like 2 chapters went by and you prolly still don't know the main characters' names if you weren't paying attention.

Then my co-artist goes and does it like it's going outta style.

mlai
You know how in comics, characters call each other by name much more than real ppl in real life (or even on TV)? I wonder why that is.

Real life/ TV: "Hey wazzup? Hey you seen that new movie?"
Comics: "Hey John wazzup? Hey John you seen that new movie?"

I deliberately try not to do that recently, and it's like 2 chapters went by and you prolly still don't know the main characters' names if you weren't paying attention.

Then my co-artist goes and does it like it's going outta style.

I usually only do that to establish a character's name or the emphasize a point. Like if my character Fayt were to be yelling at my character Genesis he would most likely say his name with bold text to emphasize it more. Also I try to have their names mentioned after a certain number of pages so that new readers can more easily identify them immediately. Besides that though my comic has a fairly simple layout (four panels with pointing text bubbles) so I don't think the reader needs much clarity.

I think everybody knows whats going on in every page of everything I've made in the last year.

mlai
You know how in comics, characters call each other by name much more than real ppl in real life (or even on TV)? I wonder why that is.

I only do that for characters we haven't seen in a while or are in disguise or unusual attire -- which is true to life. ("John! It's been ages!" or "Anna? I barely recognize you." )

Also, characters use each others' names more in intensely dangerous or dramatic situations. This also happens in real life. I'm not sure why (intimacy? comforting?... contempt?), but it does. If a comic contains more intense conflicts than real life -- and most do, names would be used more often. (My characters use pet names and derogatory nicknames too.)

I don't put any effort into "deliberately" doing things in dialogue. I let it flow naturally. I visualize my comic as life or movie, so that's what people talk like in my head. (I don't read many comics, so I'm not influenced by them much.) You always run the risk of picking up bad habits of anything you like to read or watch.

The only time I really used their names in a way that was uncharacteristic was in the first canonical page.

I like to keep my characters names vague. They have names sure, but they don't matter. Anyone can identify who the Werewolf is over in Werewolf. None of the female characters don't live long enough to get names. Some characters who appear in larger parts in the story are named, but I don't make it a point to cater to people just coming in like I do over in penis. I always write every page of stories in penis to work as a single page and as a story page. The only stuff that doesn't do that is the pothead snowman (who I have managed to get some catch up exposition out in the first panel that isn't insulting to people who are reading along) and in Werewolf. Both of which now have their own separate pages now. I always layer stuff up so their are many different interpretations to something. I get nominated for the best writing award on here, than I'm told by a lot of my peers that I'm a bad writer. How does that happen I ask? Lazy readers or people that simply don't get it. The thing with penis is its always changing and moving. Thats why I like doing daily comics. I do a day thats not so good, or it just isn't funny or interesting, theres a ton of other pages and the next day something different will be updated.

kyupol
The things that dont make a comic clear are:
- Too much speech baloons and words on a page

Or too few. I hate having to scrutinise panel after panel without dialogue in the hope of spotting something that's actually moved the plot forward.

I rarely have time for anyone to proof read my comic since I live alone, so I just always try to look at it differently myself and hope I internally asked enough questions and made the page clear enough.

DAJB
Or too few. I hate having to scrutinise panel after panel without dialogue in the hope of spotting something that's actually moved the plot forward.

HAHA I have been giving you a challenge then =P Not all of us have cool, calm, tea drinking characters that can advance plot while a fight is occurring like some awesome authors XD

DAJB
Or too few. I hate having to scrutinise panel after panel without dialogue in the hope of spotting something that's actually moved the plot forward.

JustNoPoint
HAHA I have been giving you a challenge then =P Not all of us have cool, calm, tea drinking characters that can advance plot while a fight is occurring like some awesome authors XD

Heh heh - you should give your characters more tea!
:)

Seriously, though, dialogue running through straight action sequences is a slightly different matter. Personally, I do prefer it even here if it's done well. (I think we can all learn from the fight sequences in Frank Miller's The Dark Knight Returns in this regard). But that's just me being obsessive about it!

My point was aimed more at sequences which are meant to add something to the plot or character development but which - because there is no dialogue to draw attention to the relevant feature - the reader might actually miss.

I remember reading DKR back when I was young and used to the manga form rather than the comics form. It was hard reading. As hard as any book that teachers make you read. It was suffocating to have so many words in every panel; even action panels didn't give you a break. Relentlessly oppressive.

Remember when the mutant leader kicked Batman in the guts, and there was a caption going "He shows me what a fast kick is." If it was a manga, there would've been no monologue. The author would've choreographed things differently, prolly using more than 1 panel, in order to visually show that the kick was too fast for Batman and/or that Batman's getting old.

Oh yeah, this ties in with why manga is popular with the young 'uns. It's not just the cute/pretty style. It's the refreshing "OMG this is like watching TV instead of reading a textbook!" change of pace.

I didn't realize mlai was so manga loving. And the only wall of text comic type book I ever read was Death Note. I read Sin City, but it wasn't so bad.

Sidwarrious
I didn't realize mlai was so manga loving. And the only wall of text comic type book I ever read was Death Note. I read Sin City, but it wasn't so bad.

You must've missed my 999 posts exhorting the evils of superhero comic books.

To use Death Note as such an example just means you're taking the zebra to nitpick at the horses.

Sin City series actually wasn't too bad. There are lots of wordless panels.

[imageshack.us]

Its true that Dark Knight Returns is VERY wordy at times. This particular panel not so much. But what makes it so great is that inner monologue by Batman. Its the difference between a noir and just straight action scenes. Knowing what Batman is thinking changes the whole dynamic of the comic.

I did miss them I am somewhat new still! Leave this noob alone!

marine
[imageshack.us]

Its true that Dark Knight Returns is VERY wordy at times. This particular panel not so much. But what makes it so great is that inner monologue by Batman. Its the difference between a noir and just straight action scenes. Knowing what Batman is thinking changes the whole dynamic of the comic.

Exactly my point!

Dialogue during fight/action sequences can be really annoying if it's done badly. A lot of the Golden Age comics would simply describe what was happening - that's totally unnecessary. The Silver Age comics moved on to flip one-liners - that was cool for a while but totaly unbelievable.

For me, DKR showed how dialogue can be used to add something of real value even to the most brutal fight/action sequence. By keeping the commentary in the "voice" of the character, we get something that is credible and isn't there in the artwork alone. Plus, by keeping the text short and snappy (compared to the lengthy tracts elsewhere), the pacing is changed dramatically. Sadly, examples where it's done this well are still few and far between!

I'm trying to do similar stuff over in http://www.drunkduck.com/werewolf/ . Since the eponymous character can't speak, a narration speaks for him. It describes his thoughts and feelings, with a sort of cold voice. I'm toning it out more and more. The last page had two, the second one I may pull out since it doesn't add anything to whats going on.

For example take a look at page one of Werewolf. It captures the exact spirit of whats going on perfectly. Using language like "bushes or whatever" and "He just loved covering himself in the female viscera." It has a much deeper impact than if the page was shown without the narration.

Without narration, it loses everything. I almost took out the THE WOODS sign in the first panel to further illustrate that, but I think you get the idea.



With narration, it has a certain black humor to it. The violence is put further over the top. It becomes a sort of comedy with a murderous Werewolf.



I get this a lot for all my stuff, be it a criticism or someone telling me this would improve things.

"Gee if you're such a smart guy, why don't you draw backgrounds or different art for all your panels"

Leaving them blank allows a person to draw in with their own imagination whatever scenery they want. The exposition of a given panel or page should give you a general idea of where things take place. How many professional comic panels, including the DKR page above are just a color or gradient?

The use of template art is for artistic purposes. Its a statement. People say I can't draw or that I design things weirdly. Thats kind of the point I wanted to make. With penis, and by proxy Werewolf, their parodies of comics. Not just comic books or comic strips, but the grander web comic traditions. Stuff that I saw develop into being cliche and subgenres of comics.

Dark Knight Returns is great for a lot of reasons. Its drawn and laid out wonderfully. an Frank Millers artwork has always been exceptional. I love his character design for Batman, the hulking brute Batman. The script in itself is brilliant. The way its structured and the finality of the story are really way above their time. The themes explored with the class system, how Batman is the dark and brooding guy in the shadows spreading fear in criminals and Superman is the posterboy for the world to love and look up too. I've always believed that any person who puts on a costume is in some form of psychosis. Batman and his villains have always been the best examples of just how insane the concept is. The really great think about Dark Knight Returns though, is that its just a great Batman story. Its got Batman in some epic battles. Some minimal sci fi stuff. Its got continuity stuff and universe appeal with the great DC world, but that can be argued, especially in this whatever crisis continuity DC is in now. Its just that it takes the best of Batman and shines it through.

Dark Knights sequel isn't nearly as great, and thats what the real tragedy is. Still we have the original to love and cherish. To hold sacred.

Theres a lot of comic books you'll need to read. The Watchmen & Dark Knight Returns are the top of the list for most everyone. Read those, then read Seed of Destruction or go into stuff like Transmetropolitan or Preacher. If you can appreciate the more thought out and literary aware comics, then it makes reading something where Spider-man or Wolverine or Batman or Whoever fights a villain of month seem like a joke. Without substance, there is nothing. Without a style, there is nothing. Finding a happy medium between style & substance. Flair and finesse. Kitsch & the grotesque. Then you'll be able to approach writing AND drawing a comic from a different perspective.

Being more informed on the subject of comic books is absolutely necessary, otherwise you'll turn into a Rob Liefield type. Big guns, big pecks, big tits, and nothing else. Every character turns into the same pastiche of what you think people think is cool and interesting. You simply can't or at the very least shouldn't do that.

Batman
Something explodes in my midsection

From the look of that pic, I'd say it was his testicles... >_< ow

...I have limited confidence in my ability to communicate what happens on the page, which is why I also describe what's happening in my author notes. I don't care if that's bad comicing; it's an online comic with lots of room for stuff like clarifying author notes ^_^

ozoneocean

Batman
Something explodes in my midsection

From the look of that pic, I'd say it was his testicles... >_< ow

...I have limited confidence in my ability to communicate what happens on the page, which is why I also describe what's happening in my author notes. I don't care if that's bad comicing; it's an online comic with lots of room for stuff like clarifying author notes ^_^

Shouldn't have to explain anything. People should be able to read it and understand. Most people who read online comics don't read news posts or authors comments. They don't care. Its a visual story telling medium.

It can't all be about the pretty pictures, can it? I often ask myself. To draw penis more elaborately would be to sell out and change its fundamental dynamics and underlying themes. Its a tough place to be in. I can only hope that the majority of people reading it "get it" or at least get in the general ballpark.

ozoneocean
...I have limited confidence in my ability to communicate what happens on the page, which is why I also describe what's happening in my author notes. I don't care if that's bad comicing; it's an online comic with lots of room for stuff like clarifying author notes ^_^

I try not to say much about what is actually happening on the page when I post for the opposite reason.

I want people to ask questions and/or let me know if something does not come across clearly. It helps me not repeat the same mistakes (theoretically)

I avoid explaining pages as much as possible in my author's notes. But I do tend to give a one sentence reminder on characters or relevant plot points that haven't been seen in a month (or longer). Uploading my story was an afterthought. I never intended it to be a "webcomic" but rather a book for my friends. So, events that would typically be read close together in a short time end up weeks apart when I upload a page a day. I try to give my readers credit and don't lead them by the hand, but I don't want to lose them completely.

Other than that, I just use my comments section for behind-the-scenes info. Like changes I've made to dialogue, my inspiration for specific events, my struggles with drawings, etc. Sometimes I don't know what to say there. I used to upload my pages in an album at Photobucket, so I didn't have to worry about notes.

usedbooks
I avoid explaining pages as much as possible in my author's notes. I just use my comments section for behind-the-scenes info.

I belong to the "comics should be self-explanatory" school of thought, too.

At my own website I do provide "behind the scenes" comments, as you say, but at DD I only add extra info if readers ask for it in the comments section. (So please do ask!)
:)

I'm getting better as I go along. Making comics is harder than a lot of people think. The holy grail seems to be comics where the images and words work together in perfect harmony and the panels are interesting, but drawn in a way that leads the readers' eyes through the page.
A clear action scene doesn't always need a running commentary, but you have to pick which moments of the action to choose, and which angles will show it clearly without looking boring. Remember that it's an action sequence so thinking in terms of 'this happens, then this happens, then this happens...' can help clarify things. If what's happening is too complex for just the pictures to explain, a simple running commentary can be used.
I definitely use more dialogue in webcomic pages than I would if I were telling the story in a book. I view it as something I have to do to keep up the pace of the story and make pages feel worthwhile because I do update slowly. I actually have to cut down the amount of information I want to give the reader because it'd be too much and would slow the story down so much. I'd like to spend more time explaining stuff like the ranks of all the knights and how draws work and what happened in the war, but there never seems to be a good opportunity!

Darth Mongoose
I'd like to spend more time explaining stuff like the ranks of all the knights and how draws work and what happened in the war, but there never seems to be a good opportunity!

And if all your readers are as anal as I am, we want to know... XD
That's the kinda thing that authors' notes are really good for. I agree, if you tried to explain it within the comic it'd slow things down SO much (and unless you do it right it'll become an infodump, and those things are never good - but you already know that =P). I've actually done that a little bit before myself, putting information about setting or maybe about secondary characters into the authors' notes if I can't see how to work it into the dialogue naturally.

It's a fine line to walk. Not enough info and your comic becomes impossible to follow, too much info and it's annoying. With page layouts, I tend to err on the side of clarity (which is why my panel grids are fairly traditional for the most part), with dialogue on the side of not overexplaining things. It's hard for me to predict whether or not something will be clear, but that's a big part of why I like posting my stuff here - if I screw up, people let me know that they can't figure out what's going on.

I had a scene in issue 2 with a character who can make herself intangible and invisible that was a total failure and could have been saved by one or two more captions of internal dialogue explaining what she was doing, but I was trying to convey the idea that she was really good at what she did, and too much internal dialogue would've made it seem like she had to think about every step. Then she had a salvo of arrows fly through her and everybody thought she was hurt. Sigh.