Are YOU a Rob Liefeld?

I know I am. A lot of us in our comic art can point to examples of really crazy drawing styles...
Well I was just thinking that it's really fun to laugh at your own mistakes, poke fun at them and encourage others to do so as well. Why don't we point out some strange examples of comic art here at DD and run a satirical eye over them?

(Only with the creator's permission though).
-edit- And only the work they put up, be it a single page or their entire comic.

I want this to stay in the comic forum, rather than go into the art forum, because it's specifically about comic art here at DD, not art in general. The rules of the forum say you can't start a thread about your own comic, but in this case I have to at least start with myself because it'd be rude of me to make fun of someone else's work without their say so.

So, for your judgement I present this page to start with: http://www.drunkduck.com/Pinky_TA/index.php?p=44425
Man, would you look at Cc's elephantine ankles? That great long giraffe neck, sausage arms, and hairy looking gorilla stomach? Jeebus...
And that's one of the BEST pages at the start of the comic, it actually gets worse from there until the next cover... But even that has had some heavy criticism in its time.

-Let rip, say what you like and make me hate you for it lol! Or present your own stuff.

HAHA! And you DID do it didn't you Ozone?

I actually like that cover. I think it has good stance. Uh... Cc maybe needs some hip love there - and I totally would have never seen the stomach had you not said something! I can't crit people. It just ain't my bag. I like to make folks smile. Unless they rue the day.

But either way I give you two:
http://www.drunkduck.com/Star_Crossed_Destiny/index.php?p=249881 <- if this link doesn't work it's Page 140
The lettering on this looks like a five year old did it, save the WHUD. The facial anatomy in the first panel is just ridiculous, though if it would have been cropped different it could have possibly looked cool. The next to last panel? What the damn is up with the hand holding the gun? I admit, I was probably shaking that day when I inked it, but lord. The last panel is just terrible effects-wise. Now-me would like to go back to Then-me and show the girl how it's done.

Which brings us to:
http://www.drunkduck.com/Star_Crossed_Destiny/index.php?p=258545
The anatomy of this cover in general is bad. This drawing is two years old - ie the lines are two years old but the colors are new. Her arms look like sticks there don't they? The energy tendrils look so flat... maybe that's just me. And seriously, the color theory is all wrong. It just makes me want to cry. :( And to think I just did those colors a couple days ago - but it was super rushed. :/

Oh man... This is harder than I thought :(

I find it way too difficult to say anything mean about your stuff Juno. I Think we need some "experts" here... Ok, until we get someone else I'll give it my best shot!

The pistol on the first page link looks a bit strange... Like a Lego gun? Could'a used some refs there given how great you are with the cars and helos etc.

And the second linked page . Well, yeah, Juno does look really different there (I think it's the definition of her nose) and the colours are a bit muddy, I'd blame the greyish shade of pink you used in the darker tones.

Dammit, I'm just being critical, not rude or funny... I fail. :(

Look, maybe this will help: http://www.drunkduck.com/Pinky_TA/index.php?p=43
Yet another Pinky TA page I know, but just look at those figures, the faces, the bizarre bodies and postures! Don't be forgiving, compare it to art that I think is a lot better (although in no way perfect) on a page like this of later work and see the vast difference: http://www.drunkduck.com/Pinky_TA/index.php?p=129576
(Pinky's a bit of a Barbara Streisand in the top right panel)...

ozoneocean
The pistol on the first page link looks a bit strange... Like a Lego gun? Could'a used some refs there given how great you are with the cars and helos etc.

I've found with things like that it's getting into what you like to draw. I HATE guns. I also hate drawing them. I've never held a real gun longer than to give it back. Obviously never shot one. Don't like them and really don't like drawing them. lol. So I totally blame that. Now cars? I LOVE cars. The scene I'm working on [starcrossd.net] right now - I know those curves and I know why they're there. I understand cars because I work on them and I think that helps a TON with drawing them.

But don't pick apart my scene in progress - it's just a reference. It looks strange as hell without colors and motion lines.

:D

On your page there - Love how Pinky looks like she's dancing! Crazy poses are so for the win.

Gaw, Cc looks kinda strapping, eh? Dyke on a bike with them shoulders there... Okay, I tried... I'm not a mean person - I'm just not. God.. I can't do this... It's an awesome page. I love motorcycles.

Pretty much any time I draw a gun, it's just a gray rectangle on top of the fist.
http://www.drunkduck.com/Dasien/index.php?p=699

A lot of my props are like that. I'd point out more, but it's somewhat painful to look at my older comics.

He pee'd his pants!

http://www.drunkduck.com/FIGHT/?p=259996

Entire right arm, from the shoulder to the fingertips. OMG what happened.

Edit: I had written 4 paragraphs slamming both Ozone and Juno's pages. Then I lost it due to my browser crashing out. I can't get worked up over it again... :p

junoblairb
Gaw, Cc looks kinda strapping, eh? Dyke on a bike with them shoulders there...

Ok, THAT'S what I'm talking about! Perfect! ^__^ Getting away from the DD lovefest we all like so much (best part of DD). That was cool!
(your car racing image is just too awesome)

So to go on where Juno began:
(are you sure you guys can take it? I think you're both fantastic, but I'm going to mute the compliments I would normally give. No defending stuff ok! This thread isn't about being fair.)

Mr Niel: Those guns look like pipes. Hose pipes! Extra bulk on the bods too, Red's right arm is just never gonna bend! And the pupiless huge cops eyes in the bottom panel are tripping.

Marine: Oi, actual comic stuff, not art in general, but that IS one of your characters so I suppose it's ok.
Angry Black Guy's left arm goes all sorts of wonky bellow the shoulder, his chin goes strangely teeny on the right hand there's a wierd bulge coming out the left of his neck under his ear. A goitre?

mlai
Entire right arm, from the shoulder to the fingertips. OMG what happened

Bellow the elbow I'd say, that thing is super stretched! And the left arm is super foreshortened like a dwarf arm, and you bent the hilt of your sword sideways at the bottom, like it was rubber. ^__^

(no defence now ok, remember?)

I was horrified when I realised I'd written myself into a fight scene I couldn't draw.

I used every cheating tactic I could think of, including having the zombie mysteriously disappear in panel 2. I don't know WHAT'S going on with his pose in panel 3- I can't even remember what I was thinking. The blade of his sword has somehow... mutated between panels 1 and 3, and I'm not even going to START on the anatomy, especially Nik's squished up body in panel 2.

And here , Mojo's eyes are going in different directions in every panel, but panel 2 makes me cringe. Her right eye is just wandering off up there of its own accord. I REALLY need to improve on my speech bubble placement- those things are all over the place. This is also one of the worst examples in my recent pages of my characters just being really... not dynamic. At all.

I'm really not a good artist at all. All I want to see is an improvement over how I was at the beginning. (*shudder*)

My characters have diamond shaped faces.

Keanu Reeves shows more emotion than the characters I draw.

I'm an idiot.. or then I was just distracted.... Err.

This here http://www.drunkduck.com/Horizon/index.php?p=258872 is one of the clearest "doh's" I've ever had. The guy is sitting on AIR! The bench is there, too - just not under his butt. I'd love to say he's just leaning akwardly but... heck, this is riddiculous :D

Eviltwinpixie
I was horrified when I realised I'd written myself into a fight scene I couldn't draw.

And mine here http://www.drunkduck.com/Horizon/index.php?p=251058 must be the lamest "action" scene I've ever seen... man, just horrid.



Haha, Pixie - I fell in love with your dissapearing zombie :DD

I always attempt to ignore anatomy and proper physics. If only for comedic effect.

I got a nicer drawing like that in Wednesdays page that I'll show off here once its released. Its rather goofy too.

Awwww.... I don't want this to be just artists criticising their own art... C'mon, join in and say "mean" and unfair things about other people's comic work, please?
-the stuff people have given up for perusal here.

Sorry OO, but you're going to find that artists only really notice the flaws in their own art, unless they're glaringly obvious. I wouldn't noticed either of the things you pointed out on your splash page if you hadn't pointed them out.

ozoneocean
Awwww.... I don't want this to be just artists criticising their own art... C'mon, join in and say "mean" and unfair things about other people's comic work, please?
-the stuff people have given up for perusal here.

C'mon Ozone...what you are asking may be quite hard for us to do...especially making slamming comments on one of the number one webcomics on DD...and also belonging to an admin...that's why most will only jab their own work and not those of others...also it can get ugly...
I will take the easy way out because quite honestly I think everyone is evolving in their work...I think constructive comments which I try to leave is my part to try to help others out...I see the potential in lot of whats on here and I try to help fellow artists as I hope others try to help me get better at our craft...

none of us have the level of skill as you or Juno or many others...and I looked at the stuff you and Juno were commenting on and was like...dude WTF are they talking about those pages are great...what the heck is she talking about on the lettering and the look of Cc is distinct...even if she has kankles...Juno's nose...huh? the coloring is beautiful...


I don't get it.

this page is from my comic and I hate it...I am going to redo the first panel...it didn't come out like I wanted it...just not believable enough in my opinion...
http://www.drunkduck.com/bloodhound/index.php?p=251074

TheMidge28
C'mon Ozone...what you are asking may be quite hard for us to do...especially making slamming comments on one of the number one webcomics on DD...and also belonging to an admin...that's why most will only jab their own work and not those of others...also it can get ugly...

It's not allowed to! No defence.

Ack, try and approach it not as artists, but as comic consumers, be elitist! Be obnoxious! Bugger me and my so called art skill and whatever admin status I may have, YOU are the experts here, all of you because you know what you like. Hold all the comic pages here to an impossibly perfect standard and laugh at the way they don't match up. :)

That's all I'm asking. I know it's a bit common to do that and maybe a bit immature, and not always that helpful, but it's a good exercise! Come on, give it a try, I did with Juno, Marine and Mr Neil, don't leave me hanging or I'll just look like an arsehole... I don't want to be the only arsehole here... we need more arseholes. :(

Too bad nobody is taking the kid gloves off. I don't see this topic going far unless we see some actual snark.

Can you try doing it then? I've tried my best. :(

ozoneocean

TheMidge28
C'mon Ozone...what you are asking may be quite hard for us to do...especially making slamming comments on one of the number one webcomics on DD...and also belonging to an admin...that's why most will only jab their own work and not those of others...also it can get ugly...

It's not allowed to! No defence.

Ack, try and approach it not as artists, but as comic consumers, be elitist! Be obnoxious! Bugger me and my so called art skill and whatever admin status I may have, YOU are the experts here, all of you because you know what you like. Hold all the comic pages here to an impossibly perfect standard and laugh at the way they don't match up. :)

That's all I'm asking. I know it's a bit common to do that and maybe a bit immature, and not always that helpful, but it's a good exercise! Come on, give it a try, I did with Juno, Marine and Mr Neil, don't leave me hanging or I'll just look like an arsehole... I don't want to be the only arsehole here... we need more arseholes. :(

but that still begs the question...how is that helpful?

It'll be like making fun of a retard...if someone puts up their art and they know it not great even in comparison..i.e. your work...then they are going to be ridiculed but never helped to do better...I understand it may be fun but it just seems like a glorified pissing contest...not trying to offend you...I am just advising as to what many may be thinking and why they are not responding...I know my stuff is hack and needs a lot of improvement...and so do most people on here with their own...but seriously how can I begin to take shots at someone I think is heads and shoulders above me artistically? or let alone anyone else's?

There are people already on here that make fun if you misspell or act like a retard. Who wants to deal with that when its something being made fun of that you a personally invested in...i.e. your comic. Its like making fun of my daughter...dude...don't even go there.

Believe me I am not trying to be self righteous...I just think I am communicating what maybe a lot of people here may be feeling...I may be completely wrong.

I have a feeling I might be too rude... It's a FACT that Americans are a lot more polite - and fake polite - on the internet than Finns (and in real life aswell). I never know when I go overboard. So I don't even want to try.

I'm a pussy you see :P

Also, it IS pretty hard to say anything bad about superior skills. Or on the other hand, clearly weak art.

ozoneocean
Awwww.... I don't want this to be just artists criticising their own art... C'mon, join in and say "mean" and unfair things about other people's comic work, please?
-the stuff people have given up for perusal here.

I'll try.

Eviltwinpixie
I was horrified when I realised I'd written myself into a fight scene I couldn't draw.

You still can't draw. Your characters are some of the flattest things I've seen in a while. If you're going to color, go the whole 9 yards and do some shading as well, because the paint bucket fill tool in MS Paint makes it look you're posing cardboard cut outs.

Your characters also have zero weight, when you decide to move out of the horribly overused 3/4 facing camera position. The "fight scene" is a good example of this; it's a combination of your lack of shading (so there's no depth to anything,) your apparent lack of even the most basic perspective techniques (a problem you cunningly avoid most times by simply cutting off your characters at the waist, another overused technique,) and the horribly awkward poses you put everyone in (implying no grasp of anatomy.)

marine
I always attempt to ignore anatomy and proper physics. If only for comedic effect.

I got a nicer drawing like that in Wednesdays page that I'll show off here once its released. Its rather goofy too.

I don't know if this is you volunteering to have your comic talked about, but I don't care because it sucks and I want to talk about it.

I know this is supposed to be about art, but I want to touch on the writing very briefly - it is tragically bad. I literally cannot spot where the jokes are supposed to be, aside from being "edgy" or "offensive" or something. It starts with the title (I can imagine the process involved there "oh ho! I'll name it PENIS, that will ruffle peoples' feathers") and just moves on throughout the comic. It's not funny, it's not anything. It exists, and I can see these pictures on my monitor, but they evoke no emotion except for a vague sense of embarrassment for having seen them, much like what I felt after paying to see Silent Hill. I think occasionally you're trying to rant or make a point or something. In that case, why have any art at all? Considering it hurts to look at the copy paste, why not just have a blog that would make these points more succinctly? Is it because then you couldn't hide cursewords in lightly colored font to be edgy? I dunno. Moving on.

The art. Boy howdy is the art laughable. I can see that you're already heading off the criticism by saying "but it's meant to look like shit, it's stylized." That doesn't work when you don't have a style apart from bad. Having randomly sized features isn't a style, it's you not being able to draw and trying to force it. It's interesting that you know enough about webcomics to know that that horrid 3/4 view is a deathmark so you use copy/paste and various zoom levels to get some panel break up happening, but not enough to draw your characters in any other position, probably because you can't.

I suppose that "3/4 perspective" may be giving you a little bit too much credit, since there's really no persepctive at all; sometimes arms are visible, sometimes they aren't, but I suppose that's meant to be that way because OH HAY IT'S FUNNIER THAT WAY AM I RITE GUYZ?

No. The answer is no. Your comic is not better off for having a total lack of quality art. While I seriously doubt a good artist would make this un-suck, your "stylized" art sure isn't helping at all.

Or maybe it's just a giant joke I don't get. That would actually make me feel better, because while I'd look like an idiot then, it means that people don't actually think this is good.

TheMidge28
but that still begs the question...how is that helpful?

Some people have problems being told they suck, and need to hear it over and over again. DD is low on bandwidth, if the time it takes to load a comic is any indication, which means that very literally, a shitty comic is harming one's ability to read a good one.

Or, you know what, it may not be helpful, but ranting feels good, and people who post here are literally asking for it (except for the guy who writes "penis," he may not have been, but I'm well past caring about that,) and it's certainly not doing any harm.

Baelfael

TheMidge28
but that still begs the question...how is that helpful?

Some people have problems being told they suck, and need to hear it over and over again. DD is low on bandwidth, if the time it takes to load a comic is any indication, which means that very literally, a shitty comic is harming one's ability to read a good one.

Or, you know what, it may not be helpful, but ranting feels good, and people who post here are literally asking for it (except for the guy who writes "penis," he may not have been, but I'm well past caring about that,) and it's certainly not doing any harm.

I don't know if there asking for it...maybe if there posting in this particular thread but not on this website. Its a community and people help one another out to get better...believe it or not many do know there comics suck whether you tell them or not...but its doesn't help them grow as an artist to make fun of them...no one ask for it...they post to share a bit of them self as any one posting on MySpace or elsewhere...and they post so they can get better...now if we were in a competion then yes you can evaluate the work for what it is and it being in a different league...kind of like a my daughter who is 9-months old drawing something compared to what Ozone draws...no comparison...the point I was making is that is why very little people would want to partake in this kind of exercise....of slamming or making fun of someone's art.

Someone
things about penis

Thank you internet!

TheMidge28
the point I was making is that is why very little people would want to partake in this kind of exercise....of slamming or making fun of someone's art.

We understand that, but some people DO want to partake, which is why this thread is here. :) No one's forcing anyone else to join, if the thread dies from lack of participation then it dies. However I personally don't agree with the idea that all criticism needs to come couched in niceness and helpfulness. It's the internet- if people can't take criticisms in whatever form they take, they shouldn't be posting their work on it.

In summary this is the bald, mean, direct, insulting criticisms thread so if you participate in it, no fair getting upset about it. :)

Baelfael is my new favorite person.

hpkomic
Baelfael is my new favorite person.

Mine too. I'm trying to see if they are on any other forums to see just how hilarious this person is. He's why I stick around on the internet.

God I hope they follow up with more DD posts. I just can't stop laughing!

skoolmunkee

TheMidge28
the point I was making is that is why very little people would want to partake in this kind of exercise....of slamming or making fun of someone's art.

We understand that, but some people DO want to partake, which is why this thread is here. :) No one's forcing anyone else to join, if the thread dies from lack of participation then it dies. However I personally don't agree with the idea that all criticism needs to come couched in niceness and helpfulness. It's the internet- if people can't take criticisms in whatever form they take, they shouldn't be posting their work on it.

In summary this is the bald, mean, direct, insulting criticisms thread so if you participate in it, no fair getting upset about it. :)

I'm sorry if I was making an obvious point. I didn't think it was all that obvious. :)
I had originally responded to Ozone's comments and then felt the need to respond Baelfael's since he had responded to mine...sorry. I was only trying to vocalize something which now appears to be quite obvious...my bad...continue on with the beating...12 lashes please.

TnTComic

Where did you get that? I must know.

TheMidge28
I don't know if there asking for it...maybe if there posting in this particular thread but not on this website. Its a community and people help one another out to get better...believe it or not many do know there comics suck whether you tell them or not...but its doesn't help them grow as an artist to make fun of them...no one ask for it...they post to share a bit of them self as any one posting on MySpace or elsewhere...and they post so they can get better...now if we were in a competion then yes you can evaluate the work for what it is and it being in a different league...kind of like a my daughter who is 9-months old drawing something compared to what Ozone draws...no comparison...the point I was making is that is why very little people would want to partake in this kind of exercise....of slamming or making fun of someone's art.

First off, yeah, they're asking for it.

ozoneocean
(Only with the creator's permission though).

Perhaps people didn't say "Please someone insult my shitty comic" but I take presence in this thread and them insulting themselves to be tacit permission. This stupid Piro-esque "oh god my comic sucks so bad why am I even showing it to you guys" self depreciation needs to stop. If you want to practice drawing, there are ample ways to do that, but as soon as you put it up for the public to see, I don't know why you shouldn't expect criticisms. People have this delusion that the internet is somehow their own private stomping ground, and that everyone here should be all "nice" because we're part of a "community." I say that's utterly insane and call apples apples. Penis sucks, Gorg or whatever is poorly drawn (it could well have shitty writing too, I didn't read enough to really find out.)

Second, If they're posting exclusively to get better, than the endless backpatting of webcomics and the attitude of "well at least I'm trying" needs to stop real fast, otherwise you have shit like Megatokyo that just keeps going and going with no real improvement (To pre-emempt the inevitable "yeah, but Piro is successful" argument, that's because his fans are dolts who buy anything because it's ANIMU. Seriously, Megatokyo is an abomination unto the web.)

Third, it is a competition; like I said before, bandwidth is limited. That means that every page of Penis that gets spewed out of the servers harms the ability of another, better comic to get pushed out.

Fourth, even if it's not a competition, I don't understand why I can't (or shouldn't) say something that sucks sucks. You say if it were, it would be different, but I don't see why, apart from it appears to hurt your sensibilities.

Fifth, there != their. Go read this.

Sixth, jesus christ, cut down on the ellipsis dude. No one on earth talks like that, and there's no reason to type like that when you have this magical "backspace" key that allows you to compose exactly what you want to say.

I know those last two aren't actually on the subject at hand, but they bother me.

EDIT: Well, fak, it looks like you said something along the lines of admitting that you were wrong. I'll keep this entire rant up to remind myself to refresh the page before responding. And because the last two points still apply. Seriously, buy the book, it's only like 10 bucks.