Abt_Nihil
What I oppose is a form of spirituality that hinges on weak claims of existence which confound reality and imagination.

what can confound imagination other then lack of imagination?

ayesinback
For those who have difficulty in believing in anything beyond the five senses, who probably deny the existence of any such thing, there's very little point in trying to reveal a world that they'd rather deny. Their compromise point is imagination, the mind - a halfway point of existence. The approach is scientific, that the same circumstances should yield the same results, and if the same results aren't available each time, the reality of the situation is questioned.

Abt_Nihil
And that I'm stuck on a "halfway point of existence" is a pretty daring assumption! :D

it is rather daring. why'd you assume it nihil?

ayesinback:
Whenever I get the feeling I'm being attacked personally, I'll give the "attacker" the benefit of doubt. On the internet, people tend to get aggressive or defensive pretty easily, and in far too many cases, arguments are based on misunderstandings. So I'd try to make sure I'm not getting worked up over some misunderstanding.

Also, a big problem here is that there's less consensus on what "spirituality" is, in opposition to what, say, science and imagination are. There is a form of spirituality which I support, and a different form which I refuse. The former being a general form of being open and accepting towards people, the ability to genuinely listen to others, to not deny everything someone says based on claims of "irrationality", etc. The latter being a form of superstition, a denial of scientific evidence (such as creationism), etc. I have the feeling that magic incorporates both the good and bad parts, that's why I'm wary.

One of the crucial points for me, and one that I won't give up, is that "existence" is one of the strongest attributes you can give to something, and you should only distribute it sparsely. :D

rokulily

Abt_Nihil
What I oppose is a form of spirituality that hinges on weak claims of existence which confound reality and imagination.

what can confound imagination other then lack of imagination?

I don't think a lack of imagination actually confounds imagination... there is a clear distinction between lacking something and confusing something. What I meant was: If you don't acknowledge the fact that, say, a chair can either be real (in my room) or imagined (in my mind), then you don't even have a basis for the concept of imagination. If there's no distinction between reality and imagination, both concepts lose their content.

rokulily

Abt_Nihil
And that I'm stuck on a "halfway point of existence" is a pretty daring assumption! :D

it is rather daring. why'd you assume it nihil?

Uh... I didn't? :D It just wasn't clear to me from reading ayesinback's post whether all of these attributes (not believing in anything beyond the five senses, having a rather strict view of the imagination) and the attribute derived from it (being stuck on a "halfway point of existence" ) were supposed to apply to me...

I personally think that there is nothing magical or spiritual about the unexplained... merely that we don't have the scientific/technological wherewithal to explain it just yet.

I am highly receptive to the possibility of multiverses, of branes, of 11 dimensions from vibrating strings, etc. Relativity, now considered mundane science, has already shown us fantastical aspects of the universe previously considered as the domain of magic and fiction. TIME SLOWS DOWN WHEN YOU GET FARTHER AWAY FROM THE EARTH. If something considered an unimaginable perversion of fundamental reality, just a generation ago, can be hard and applicable scientific fact today, then why can't multiple universes/dimensions? Or ghosts (or similar entities)?

The hadron collider has already been creating particles than mankind didn't even know existed, or could exist, in this reality. Just give it a generation or two.

mlai
TIME SLOWS DOWN WHEN YOU GET FARTHER AWAY FROM THE EARTH

You mean the speed of light? Nothing to do with the earth, and when you're travelling near that speed time for you is still just the same as it always was. But to the rest of the universe your time will be slower- doesn't matter where you are though.

As to the rest, I know that there are theories about it all, people who specialise in it and understand it very well, but I don't- at least not particularly. To me they may as well be wizards. :(

ozoneocean

mlai
TIME SLOWS DOWN WHEN YOU GET FARTHER AWAY FROM THE EARTH

You mean the speed of light? Nothing to do with the earth, and when you're travelling near that speed time for you is still just the same as it always was. But to the rest of the universe your time will be slower- doesn't matter where you are though.

I think he refers to the fact that time moves faster the closer you are to a great mass. If you're up on a mountain, time moves slower than if you're in the valley.

I agree with mlai that there's a lot about the physical world we don't know. But sightings of ghosts, UFOs and the like can usually be attributed to the misinterpretation of things we do know, many times caused by hazy perception, disorientation or mental defects. Also, the fact that there are a lot of physical things we don't know about simply means that, in a given situation, we don't know about all causally effective factors. It does not mean that the universe isn't causally closed! (Ghosts, deities and the like often presuppose that they can interfere from somewhere "beyond", and that the universe isn't causally closed).

Abt_Nihil
I think he refers to the fact that time moves faster the closer you are to a great mass. If you're up on a mountain, time moves slower than if you're in the valley.

Sure, but wouldn't that just be any mass at all? So if you're out in space and some dust is the closest thing too you... or does the mass have to be greater than you? Like the ISS for example...

Too small to measure but the effect should scale down as well as up.

You're right, it's any mass. It just doesn't have to do with your speed (but rather with the "effort" it takes light to escape from the mass).