http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=2934283&page=1
Some say he was an antiquity that needed to be swept asaide, some say that he was the embodiment of what America should strive to be. What are your thoughts on the death of Captain America?
going away - Comic Discussion (Print & Web!)
Captain America, Dead
KomradeDave
at 10:11PM, March 9, 2007
Handshakes and mustaches are the only ways to know how much you can truly trust a man.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:20PM
jalford
at 1:15AM, March 10, 2007
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:06PM
reconjsh
at 1:33AM, March 10, 2007
He was a casualty of the marvel civil war... and his death, in that context, has significant meaning.
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:02PM
subcultured
at 4:56AM, March 10, 2007
they'll bring him back, when thier cash crop needs harvesting
J
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:01PM
OutofLine
at 5:45AM, March 10, 2007
Knowing Marvel, they'll probably write away the whole "Civil War", anyway. lol!
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:23PM
mlai
at 7:17AM, March 10, 2007
Death is cheap in American comics. And consequently, life is as well. One of the reasons why I gave up American comics, and I can even recall the specific instances when I said to myself "This is bullshit. That's it, no more comics for me." All cases were Marvel. Cuz c'mon, Superman resurrection was expected.
1. Sabertooth's death at the hands of Holocaust in Age of Apocalypse. They bring him back, for what, a one-panel cameo. WTF. On top of that, in a limited series (you can essentially call it a dream sequence) in which his death could have had meaning and it wouldn't be permanent ANYWAYS. Just to sell one more issue in which he had zero speaking role.
2. Bloodscream's (or whatever that albino vampire's name was) demise at the hands of Wolverine in Canada with Wolverine cutting him down with a sword "not of this Earth," in a well-composed stand-alone issue by Kubert. That singular issue was so poetic it made me investigate the next issue, even though I don't follow that comic. They bring Bloodscream back... from a final vampiric death... after a great issue... for what? Is he some indispensable mainstream villain? Just a friggin' everyday vampire... why can't they let him die a memorable death in a great story?
3. The Skinner's demise at the hands of Johnny Blaze in Skinner's intro issue in Spirits of Vengeance, another issue by Kubert. OK, minor villain... gonna die anyways at the end of the series arc... no more important roles... why can't we just give them a good death?
I read that Capt America article. I want to go and punch that Asian turd complaining about the death of Capt America. Another moron who has no idea what being a hero is all about.
In my top fav anime series of all time, the hero dies at the end, tragically, heroically. Every fiber of your being screams for this loveable character to have a good end, but the ending is memorable precisely because reality happens. And that reality is the reality of heroism, and brings you to a closer understanding.
1. Sabertooth's death at the hands of Holocaust in Age of Apocalypse. They bring him back, for what, a one-panel cameo. WTF. On top of that, in a limited series (you can essentially call it a dream sequence) in which his death could have had meaning and it wouldn't be permanent ANYWAYS. Just to sell one more issue in which he had zero speaking role.
2. Bloodscream's (or whatever that albino vampire's name was) demise at the hands of Wolverine in Canada with Wolverine cutting him down with a sword "not of this Earth," in a well-composed stand-alone issue by Kubert. That singular issue was so poetic it made me investigate the next issue, even though I don't follow that comic. They bring Bloodscream back... from a final vampiric death... after a great issue... for what? Is he some indispensable mainstream villain? Just a friggin' everyday vampire... why can't they let him die a memorable death in a great story?
3. The Skinner's demise at the hands of Johnny Blaze in Skinner's intro issue in Spirits of Vengeance, another issue by Kubert. OK, minor villain... gonna die anyways at the end of the series arc... no more important roles... why can't we just give them a good death?
I read that Capt America article. I want to go and punch that Asian turd complaining about the death of Capt America. Another moron who has no idea what being a hero is all about.
In my top fav anime series of all time, the hero dies at the end, tragically, heroically. Every fiber of your being screams for this loveable character to have a good end, but the ending is memorable precisely because reality happens. And that reality is the reality of heroism, and brings you to a closer understanding.
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:05PM
subcultured
at 7:46AM, March 10, 2007
i don't read much marvel nowadays...it's kids stuff compared to stories from vertigo
J
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:01PM
reconjsh
at 9:05AM, March 10, 2007
I have to admit that I don't buy all the comics I read anymore. Yay internet. *cough*
And wiki is pretty good about broad overviews of what's going on in varying story lines.
there's a few comics I waste my money on though, like Hunter-Kill right now is one of my favorites. It's just a mutant comic... but it's got a really nice dark edge to it.
And wiki is pretty good about broad overviews of what's going on in varying story lines.
there's a few comics I waste my money on though, like Hunter-Kill right now is one of my favorites. It's just a mutant comic... but it's got a really nice dark edge to it.
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:02PM
ccs1989
at 9:30AM, March 10, 2007
They'll bring him back in a year, tops.
It's for corporate bullshit reasons like this that I stick with Vertigo, Image, and Dark Horse. Every so often I buy something from DC, but DC and Marvel really dissapoint me. They live in the past tied to their old characters.
It's not that American comics are bad, it's just that these companies won't give up. Everyone should do themselves a favor and check out Invincible from Image. Now that's a comic where they don't do any of this crap.
It's for corporate bullshit reasons like this that I stick with Vertigo, Image, and Dark Horse. Every so often I buy something from DC, but DC and Marvel really dissapoint me. They live in the past tied to their old characters.
It's not that American comics are bad, it's just that these companies won't give up. Everyone should do themselves a favor and check out Invincible from Image. Now that's a comic where they don't do any of this crap.
http://ccs1989.deviantart.com
"If one advances confidently in the direction of his dreams, and endeavors to live the life which he has imagined, he will meet with a success unexpected in common hours."
-Henry David Thoreau, Walden
"If one advances confidently in the direction of his dreams, and endeavors to live the life which he has imagined, he will meet with a success unexpected in common hours."
-Henry David Thoreau, Walden
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:38AM
Inkmonkey
at 4:47PM, March 10, 2007
Now, I think Cap's death is a really interesting choice on Marvel's part. Cap, while a memorable character, hadn't been a real "sell" in years. He was hugely important, canonically, but he certainly couldn't hold a title like Spider-Man or Wolverine.
But with the advent of the Civil War and Cap's unique stance on it, he's back on top! Well, not on top, but people are interested in him again. And while the death issues are gonna sell like hotcakes, it's definitely a loss of a character on his way back up. I suppose it's a case of Marvel "striking when the iron is hot", so to speak, by eliminating him when it will have the most emotion impact. People haven't cared this much about Cap in years, and this is the time when his death will put the most shockwaves in the comics community.
Anyway, I'm glad they seem to intend on keeping this permanent (at least for now. Hell, even Captain Marvel is back), since apparently the next issue is going to deal with his autopsy. Odds are Steve's going to stay dead (and probably do some nifty ghost stuff from time to time) and someone else is going to take up the mantle of Captain America (wouldn't be the first time, either).
My only real complaint thus far, from a critical standpoint (and this might be a bit of a spoiler), is the forced drama of having his on again/off again girlfriend Sharon Carter shoot him under hypnosis. Now, I know it's a bit "anticlimactic" to say that the Red Skull simply took advantage of the chaos of Civil War to finally rid himself of the Red White and Blue bastard, but I feel that would make the whole thing a bit more "real". What they did feels very forced and just thrown in in order to have something nice and emotional to get people to care about a character most of us can barely remember.
But with the advent of the Civil War and Cap's unique stance on it, he's back on top! Well, not on top, but people are interested in him again. And while the death issues are gonna sell like hotcakes, it's definitely a loss of a character on his way back up. I suppose it's a case of Marvel "striking when the iron is hot", so to speak, by eliminating him when it will have the most emotion impact. People haven't cared this much about Cap in years, and this is the time when his death will put the most shockwaves in the comics community.
Anyway, I'm glad they seem to intend on keeping this permanent (at least for now. Hell, even Captain Marvel is back), since apparently the next issue is going to deal with his autopsy. Odds are Steve's going to stay dead (and probably do some nifty ghost stuff from time to time) and someone else is going to take up the mantle of Captain America (wouldn't be the first time, either).
My only real complaint thus far, from a critical standpoint (and this might be a bit of a spoiler), is the forced drama of having his on again/off again girlfriend Sharon Carter shoot him under hypnosis. Now, I know it's a bit "anticlimactic" to say that the Red Skull simply took advantage of the chaos of Civil War to finally rid himself of the Red White and Blue bastard, but I feel that would make the whole thing a bit more "real". What they did feels very forced and just thrown in in order to have something nice and emotional to get people to care about a character most of us can barely remember.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:59PM
KomradeDave
at 5:57PM, March 10, 2007
I think it's got some symbolism behind it, I'm also glad they're keeping him dead (at least for a while). Quesada has explicitly stated that he doesn't want this to be a "comic book" death. He wants it to mean something, which it won't if a cyborg Cap, a black Cap, a mullet Cap, and a teen Cap show up.
I think of it this way: Captain America instilled in me a sense of patriotism and duty (it's corny and nerdy but it's true) that I could accept without being revolted. His death is like the death of what it means to truly be an American. It shows that the Civil War, in the end, has killed the spirit of America (once again with the corn). I'd say this is way more important than Superman's death and more meaningful to me because they don't want to do a quickie come-back now that they've made news.
I think of it this way: Captain America instilled in me a sense of patriotism and duty (it's corny and nerdy but it's true) that I could accept without being revolted. His death is like the death of what it means to truly be an American. It shows that the Civil War, in the end, has killed the spirit of America (once again with the corn). I'd say this is way more important than Superman's death and more meaningful to me because they don't want to do a quickie come-back now that they've made news.
Handshakes and mustaches are the only ways to know how much you can truly trust a man.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:20PM
ccs1989
at 7:39PM, March 10, 2007
Whatever happened to the Red Skull? I remember he was Cap's biggest enemy back during the Lee/Kirby years, but did he die? I'd like to see him make a comeback.
http://ccs1989.deviantart.com
"If one advances confidently in the direction of his dreams, and endeavors to live the life which he has imagined, he will meet with a success unexpected in common hours."
-Henry David Thoreau, Walden
"If one advances confidently in the direction of his dreams, and endeavors to live the life which he has imagined, he will meet with a success unexpected in common hours."
-Henry David Thoreau, Walden
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:38AM
Inkmonkey
at 8:06PM, March 10, 2007
He died, but it wasn't quite so permanent. And seeing as how he orchestrated Cap's assassination, I'd say that, yes, he is making a Hell of a comeback.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:59PM
ccs1989
at 11:31AM, March 11, 2007
He died and came back to life? Wow, that's so uncommon in comics.
So HE'S behind it all...
So HE'S behind it all...
http://ccs1989.deviantart.com
"If one advances confidently in the direction of his dreams, and endeavors to live the life which he has imagined, he will meet with a success unexpected in common hours."
-Henry David Thoreau, Walden
"If one advances confidently in the direction of his dreams, and endeavors to live the life which he has imagined, he will meet with a success unexpected in common hours."
-Henry David Thoreau, Walden
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:38AM
Inkmonkey
at 1:46PM, March 11, 2007
Well, his body was killed by Bucky (who was revealed to be alive the whole time and just suffering from amnesia), but he was in possession of the "Cosmic Cube" at the time, and used its powers to transfer his mind into another person's body. His death was never really intended to be permanent as I'm fairly certain it showed him entering the new body at the end of the issue. It was basically just a way for the Skull to go "underground" as it were, and to have some financial power to play around with.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:59PM
subcultured
at 5:04PM, March 11, 2007
dude they even brought back that dead robin!
wtf, comic deaths on dc and marvel don't really carry a lot of weight
wtf, comic deaths on dc and marvel don't really carry a lot of weight
J
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:01PM
Inkmonkey
at 6:01PM, March 11, 2007
Unfortunately, it's often a money issue. A few writers quit the industry because they get tired of marketing saying that the comic needs to bring back such and such character. Just as an example, Spidey is wearing his black costume again because of Spider-Man 3. Now, they'd already had Spidey get "back in black" in the past, but the black costume holds too many bad memories for him (and aside from which, it scares the shit out of Mary Jane), so not only does he not wear it, he sees it as a symbol of one of the worst times in his life, and as everything he could do wrong as a hero (since it made him unnecessarily violent and cruel). The fact that it also spawned many of his greatest enemies and was responsible for the deaths of hundreds doesn't help at all.
But, at the end of Civil War, we get a shot of Luke Cage complimenting Spidey on his new outfit, with a simple response of "Thanks". There's a logic to Spidey, as one of the heroes remaining underground despite the general acceptance of the Super Hero registration Act, to want a more covert outfit, but it's already been well established that he and his loved ones hate the black suit. But the movie's coming out, and there you go...
But, at the end of Civil War, we get a shot of Luke Cage complimenting Spidey on his new outfit, with a simple response of "Thanks". There's a logic to Spidey, as one of the heroes remaining underground despite the general acceptance of the Super Hero registration Act, to want a more covert outfit, but it's already been well established that he and his loved ones hate the black suit. But the movie's coming out, and there you go...
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:59PM
Tastanagee
at 10:05AM, March 12, 2007
I'm upset that they killed one of my childhood heroes, but yeah, it happens, change and all that jazz. I don't mind that they killed him, but they way he went out was so terrible. Superman went down fighting. Half the avengers went down fighting, I hated it, but I loved it at the same time because they went down like heroes. Captain America was shot down like a dog.
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:07PM
subcultured
at 6:34PM, March 12, 2007
so lets brainstorm on how you would write him back?
-as capt america was dragged into cuffs a sniper bullet hits him, only by killing him created a cult of people determined to save capt, they created a time machine to stop nitro from killing all those people therefore all the events leading to the civil war does not happen
-capt was a clone monkey
-capt had copied his mind into a computer. capt reconstructed himself after his body was shot. he is now cyber america
-capt was really a vampire and comes back to life
-an alternate dimension capt find his way into the current time line
-tony stark creates a time machine to take the capt before he was frozen into the current time line
-the red skull is really capt america and captain america was really a reconstructed red skull
-the nazis cloned capt america from his cells and created captain germany, but later becomes good because he wanted to be like capt america
-dr strange find captain's soul and resurrects him
-as capt america was dragged into cuffs a sniper bullet hits him, only by killing him created a cult of people determined to save capt, they created a time machine to stop nitro from killing all those people therefore all the events leading to the civil war does not happen
-capt was a clone monkey
-capt had copied his mind into a computer. capt reconstructed himself after his body was shot. he is now cyber america
-capt was really a vampire and comes back to life
-an alternate dimension capt find his way into the current time line
-tony stark creates a time machine to take the capt before he was frozen into the current time line
-the red skull is really capt america and captain america was really a reconstructed red skull
-the nazis cloned capt america from his cells and created captain germany, but later becomes good because he wanted to be like capt america
-dr strange find captain's soul and resurrects him
J
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:01PM
Inkmonkey
at 8:17PM, March 12, 2007
You know what bothers me about this whole thing is, Aunt May got shot by a sniper right about the same time as Captain America and she survived. Granted she didn't get a clip unloaded into her gut immediately afterward, but still. She has to be a mutant, and her power seems to be that she can't die, only fall into a series of comas. And whenever she gets out of a coma she becomes gradually younger.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:59PM
ozoneocean
at 9:41AM, March 13, 2007
subculturedIt was ALL a dream...
so lets brainstorm on how you would write him back?
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:26PM
Inkmonkey
at 5:35PM, March 13, 2007
Plus, word on the street is that The Punisher is going to be giving himself the mantle of Captain America (he is the one who ran off with Cap's mask after Civil War). I need to find the official artwork; saw it earlier, but I can't seem to find it now...
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:59PM
jalford
at 4:09AM, March 14, 2007
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:06PM
ozoneocean
at 7:47AM, March 14, 2007
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:26PM
Tastanagee
at 8:25PM, March 15, 2007
Great ideas Subs, all of them. But I'm of a mind to think alonng some other lines. SHIELD has his body, thus his DNA. They are going to clone him and have an army of stormtroopers...um, I mean super soldiers. Also they'll reverse engineer his DNA and unlock the secret of the serum. But one of the clones is going to go renegade and take the mantle of the original Cap.
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:07PM
mlai
at 9:06PM, March 15, 2007
We do realize how stupid he looks as a character, right?
Bigass A on his forehead. Little wings in place of hair. White star on his chest. Blue fish scales.
Bigass A on his forehead. Little wings in place of hair. White star on his chest. Blue fish scales.
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:05PM
simonitro
at 2:51AM, March 16, 2007
So fucking what, the series sucks anyways!
God, people are dying everyday and you'd care about some cheap ass character's death? I don't mean the people on Drunkduck but whoever wrote this article on ABC news is quite retarded!
God, people are dying everyday and you'd care about some cheap ass character's death? I don't mean the people on Drunkduck but whoever wrote this article on ABC news is quite retarded!
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:37PM
ozoneocean
at 5:46AM, March 16, 2007
mlai-I don't read any comics let alone Capatain America, but I do like him from the old, old TV cartoons.
We do realize how stupid he looks as a character, right?
Bigass A on his forehead. Little wings in place of hair. White star on his chest. Blue fish scales.
You know that look though is quite iconic. it's based heavily on those popular 19thC characterisations of a nation's identity (i.e. Britannia), which are in turn based on the early 19thC renderings of Teutonic mythological characters. I love that Captain America has that artistic heritage of nationalist iconography. This is obvious stuff mind you, not clever or subtle interpretation.
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:26PM
mlai
at 7:15AM, March 16, 2007
Please show me how a guy completely covered in spandex with an A on his forehead is similar to a Teutonic mythological character.
I can't picture it. I wouldn't mind an art history lesson here.
I can't picture it. I wouldn't mind an art history lesson here.
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:05PM
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