In the interest of not hijacking this thread I will end my time here with this:


I'm right.







Best wishes XOXO,
Chalrie

charlie_everyone
A friend of mine actually did become schizophrenic after smoking in freshman year of art conservatory. He's kind of just a shell now.

Cause and effect should be made clear here. Pot does not cause schizophrenia. People with schizophrenia have a predisposition for it, but drug use can worsen it, or make symptoms manifest earlier than they otherwise might have. But the pot is not creating a condition.

Wikipedia
Studies suggest that genetics, early environment, neurobiology, psychological and social processes are important contributory factors.

lothar
they could train dogs to look for hidden sausage , .. chicken would be considered the gateway meat as it would be cheap and considered not as hard core as pork or even Beef ! the cops would be raiding illegal underground BBQ parties .
fish would still be available by perscription

this is the best thing i've read all week

charlie_everyone
Calling my ideas "stupidest" is a mistake and I am going to hose you for it.

I still stand by what I said earlier because so far you've given nothing but blanket statements which doesn't explain anything about why we should legalize it.

Sure, you've posted the statistics about the death rates and their cause, but that's not enough to back up everything else that you have said. You've just proved that nobody has died from marijuana use.

charlie_everyone
A lot of CASUAL drug users, especially those without medical insurance, use pot to stop themselves from wanting to jump in front of a bus.

Is this you just talking, or is there any proof?
link
lets see the first 5 links:
*Marijuana Drug May Reduce Fibromyalgia Pain (that is if you want to take a medical standpoint)
*Suicide / Schizophrenia (seems more to say the opposite of what you're trying to prove, skip over that)
*Hillary and Obama on Assisted Suicide and Medical Marijuana
*Japanese government intends to reduce suicide rate (nothing related to what you're saying)
*cannabisnews.com: Marijuana Ingredient May Reduce Tumors (another point if you want to take the medical stand point)



This is what I think about what you've said earlier but put in a nicer way:

theprettiestpony
"hating pot is like giving the finger to basically every artist or musician who has ever lived" lol
"Pot would be like any other medical substance. It would improve your quality of life." this reminds me of that quote from Knocked Up... when seth rogen says, "It is, like, the best medicine. 'Cause it fixes everything. Jonah broke his elbow once. We just... got high and... it still clicks but, I mean, he's ok." also, lol. medically, there are a lot more threatening substances that are legal, like oxycodone, and i feel that as a type of anesthetic marijuana has uses. but i doubt that a normal person's quality of life can be improved by using marijuana. then again, if your definition of "quality of life" is contingent upon how high you want to be, have a blast.

Here's another one, and I'll help you turn it into a point:

charlie_everyone
Legalizing it would make America a better place and help to get us out of the recession.

Why and how would that work?
I don't know about it making America a better place, but it could get us out of recession because it is one of the most profitable drugs in the US and the government can tax on that. And there is a pretty high demand for it, so there is almost no way that the tax idea would fall apart.

I've worked for the local campus newspaper as an illustrator, and the discussion about legalizing marijuana has been brought up in every press meet. I've heard reasons that are smarter and well explained that what you've said earlier. Some absurd, but they made sense.

Here's an example that I've heard.

"Michael Phelps.

Sure, maybe he shouldn't have been ripping a bong at a party, because of his status and the fact that not the entire US have the same views as some of us do. But hey media! Not everybody who smoke pot ends up being a couch potato and some loser in life. This guy broke 5 Olympic records.
And after the 'scandal', he goes on to break the meet record at the 2009 Santa Clara Grand Prix Meet.
So media, lighten up."

So far from what I've seen in your post, you see blazing is the only solution to every problem. No it is not a miracle drug, useful in some ways, but not a miracle drug.

Take a look back at what you've posted, and see if they make any sense to anybody that is not in the circle. I'm pretty sure you can get the government to lean on your side with only "it would improve your quality of life" and "it taps into our creative aspect."

I asked my mom just now if pot improved her quality of life at all and she flat out said no. Right now she sometimes takes a few hits at friends parties(high school hippie friends, they grew up together)to be social, But said that when younger she was smoking it all the time and was totally into the 'scene' that came along with it back in the 70's.

For creativity she said "if you need drugs to be creative aren't you kind've a hack anyways? real creativity shouldn't come from drugs." Make of it what you will that's from the mouth of a woman that grew up in the most popular era to surround yourself with pot and doesn't think it should be legalized. (but thinks the government should let up on it and spend the money on other areas of drugs that really ruin things)


I also agree with Joel that it's not a miracle drug.

Personally I'd rather fix the actual problem than alter my perception of the problem. It just seems like the more worthwhile thing to do, and that's why I've always been skeptical of mood-altering medication. However, I realize that for some people, their mood is the real problem, due to some sort of chemical imbalance or psychological dilemma. So I realize I can't apply my philosophy to other people.

Skullbie
I asked my mom just now if pot improved her quality of life at all and she flat out said no. Right now she sometimes takes a few hits at friends parties(high school hippie friends, they grew up together)to be social, But said that when younger she was smoking it all the time and was totally into the 'scene' that came along with it back in the 70's.

For creativity she said "if you need drugs to be creative aren't you kind've a hack anyways? real creativity shouldn't come from drugs." Make of it what you will that's from the mouth of a woman that grew up in the most popular era to surround yourself with pot and doesn't think it should be legalized. (but thinks the government should let up on it and spend the money on other areas of drugs that really ruin things)


I also agree with Joel that it's not a miracle drug.

So your mom smokes pot but doesn't think it should be legal for her to do so? That doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.

I don't think getting high all the time would improve your quality of life. Self-medicating, whether it's marijuana, alcohol, or what have you, is NOT a good idea.
But to blaze occasionally...have fun with your friends, just feel nice for a while, well, I certainly don't think it would HURT your quality of life.
If you mother doesn't think it should be legal, or that it makes her happier in any way, why does she do it? "To be social" isn't a very good reason at all.

And I don't think using drugs makes you a "hack." I don't believe that when you take drugs that it PUTS ideas in your head. Simply, it allows you to see areas of your mind that you couldn't before. And if you use those things to make art, well there's no harm in that as long as you aren't abusing or relying on it entirely.

Marijuana usage can also cause panic attacks, which in turn can develop into a full-blown panic disorder. It's still the same argument as schizophrenia, where you're genetically/environmentally predisposed to the condition and that's what determines whether or not it happens, but seeing as panic disorders are much more common than schizophrenia, that would be the condition that I'd worry about.

Pretty weird effects for a drug that's supposed to mellow you out, eh? Then again, you can make the same arguments against alcohol too, so that still isn't a reason to ban one but not the other.

Skullbie
I asked my mom just now if pot improved her quality of life at all and she flat out said no.

Hippie Van
I don't think getting high all the time would improve your quality of life.

Why does something have to improve the quality of life to be legal? Playing video games doesn't improve my quality of life, either. So long as it's not drastically reducing the quality of life, what's the harm?

megan_rose
Why does something have to improve the quality of life to be legal? Playing video games doesn't improve my quality of life, either. So long as it's not drastically reducing the quality of life, what's the harm?

some would argue that videogames drive people to homicide. if they show up, i'm likely to point at 'em and laugh.

The reason pot was illegalized in the first place was because back in the days of Woodstock, it inspired the hippies to go out and protest the war more than they would have otherwise. Also, Marijuana actually does improve the quality of life. It's a stimulant, so it can help with depression.

Sea_Cow
The reason pot was illegalized in the first place was because back in the days of Woodstock, it inspired the hippies to go out and protest the war more than they would have otherwise.

Not really. It was only federally illegalized in the 1970's, but individual states were passing laws against it looooong before then.
The reasons have more to do with racism and capitalism than the government stamping down anti-war protesters.

Reefer was seen as a "colored person's" drug, (heck, the name "marijuana" is Spanish) and 100 years ago, that was enough reason to hate something. Even today, non-white people are arrested for pot use twice as often as white people, despite white people actually doing it twice as much, and white people are more likely to get a lighter sentence. It's an easy, institutionalized way to arrest non-white people for doing something that doesn't hurt anybody.

As far as the capitalism goes, William Randolph Hearst, owner of a lot of newspapers, didn't want to see hemp-made paper competing with wood-pulp-paper. So he used his papers to write a lot of anti-marijuana stuff, spreading propaganda and getting enough people to believe the lies that eventually, politicians were convinced it was somehow worse than cigarettes or alcohol.

The politicians also want to appear "tough on drugs" to appease the voters. They're failing to see that this is basically a modern-era Prohibition, and we all know how well that turned out the first time around.

Sea_Cow
0
The reason pot was illegalized in the first place was because back in the days of Woodstock, it inspired the hippies to go out and protest the war more than they would have otherwise. Also, Marijuana actually does improve the quality of life. It's a stimulant, so it can help with depression.

actually, it was initally because of the paper industry that hemp was given such a bad rep. hemp paper was cheaper and stronger than the wood pulp stuff (due to less processing needed) and the paper mills didn't like that so they conducted a media blitz to get the populace to distrust it.

kind of like the reverse of tobacco.

I guess this isn't really saying much. I don't have facts, science, or really the passion to say anything more then my own personal belief--but here it goes.

I think that smoking weed is something that lazy and bored people do. A form of escapism. I'm not saying it makes you lazy or bored. It's just something a lot of uninspired, lonely people do. They sit in their basement and get high.

And I don't think legalization would change that at all. I'm perfectly fine with it being illegal, as it doesn't effect me one bit.

Orin J Master

Sea_Cow
0
The reason pot was illegalized in the first place was because back in the days of Woodstock, it inspired the hippies to go out and protest the war more than they would have otherwise. Also, Marijuana actually does improve the quality of life. It's a stimulant, so it can help with depression.

actually, it was initally because of the paper industry that hemp was given such a bad rep. hemp paper was cheaper and stronger than the wood pulp stuff (due to less processing needed) and the paper mills didn't like that so they conducted a media blitz to get the populace to distrust it.

kind of like the reverse of tobacco.

don't forget the cotton industry too,
and if my memory serves correct when i talked to a professor, the government saw that as a big drop of revenue, which also pushed to the illegalization.

Arico
I think that smoking weed is something that lazy and bored people do. A form of escapism. I'm not saying it makes you lazy or bored. It's just something a lot of uninspired, lonely people do. They sit in their basement and get high.

LOL

let's see wut happens when you replace "weed" with "internets"

Someone
I think that using the internet is something that lazy and bored people do. A form of escapism. I'm not saying it makes you lazy or bored. It's just something a lot of uninspired, lonely people do. They sit in their basement and use the internet.

now .. that is probably true about a lot of people, but not everyone who uses the internet . you see how that is really not a justification for something being illegal . how would you feel if the internets was outlawed

lothar
now .. that is probably true about a lot of people, but not everyone who uses the internet . you see how that is really not a justification for something being illegal . how would you feel if the internets was outlawed

I never said it was justification for having something outlawed. I stated my personal opinion about why I don't do it, followed by the statement that I wouldn't care if it was illegal.

Don't troll.

lol trolling ???
i was just pointing out how you are making generalizations about
something you don't seem to know much about

Arico
I'm perfectly fine with it being illegal, as it doesn't effect me one bit.

and that's just an apathetic and pointless statement . so .. since it doesn't effect you , you are fine with it being illegal. think about that. there are a lot of things that prolly don't effect various groups of people . if a man says its allright to outlaw abortion cuz he's not a woman and it doesn't effect him , or a straight guy says its cool if they outlaw gay marriage cuz he's not gay . you understand what i'm trying to say here ? if you have a real reason for being against something , that's one thing , but if everyone thought and voted not considering things that don't directly effect them , we would have a lot less of freedoms that we currently enjoy

Arico
I guess this isn't really saying much. I don't have facts, science, or really the passion to say anything more then my own personal belief--but here it goes.

TROLLTROLLTROLLTROLLTROLLTROLLTROLL-

Thank you for contributing an opinion that takes no consideration for anything/one that exists outside yourself. i would, however like to inform you that your opinions are both short-sighted and misinformed, as most of the things you have said i know from fist hand experience to be inaccurate.

in the future, please consider the option of not posting, or "lurking MOAR" in topics you do not care about. you will be a happier person for it.

lothar
they could train dogs to look for hidden sausage

my grandmother got caught at the airport sneaking morcilla (blood sausage) into America...!

Calm dooown duuuudes, smoke a joiiiint
peeeace

Far as I know, it's just like video games. Don't do you no good, yet the consequences are minor. Just another thing to do other than going outside and exercising and shit like that. It's the perfect way to be lazy, and has an entire community based around it. Both video games and weed are a temporary distraction from reality, only difference is that video games are mostly a controlled experience.

My view is go ahead and legalize it. Like other addictive recreational substances your doctor or psychiatrist are best qualified to say if you shouldn't have it and personal choice takes care of the rest.

There are plenty of pro and cons but in this instance its somewhat neutral they balance each other out. Long term exhaustive use can be damaging but the same goes for everything from cigarettes to Gatorade and lasagna. It would explode proliferation but that would only be temporary and not many new users would result. It would gut an entire illegal industry and could possibly generate tax revenue.

I don't personally smoke but short of suicide and violent/vindictive crime I believe the government should only have limited control over our personal preferences and liberties.

Oh man, this thread.

I'm fine with it being legalized (pretty much all the stuff Oz said, whose post remains the most sensible and non-reactionary of all of them), I don't have anything against it or the people who use it. I don't see that it's any better or worse than things already legal.

My only objection to people smoking pot openly is the same objection I have to people smoking cigarettes openly- they stink (pot even more than cigs) and being around those people is unpleasant, and being near wherever they're smoking makes my clothes smell. But it's a person's right to go around stinking it up if they want to. :]

Source: Lancet

And another thing:

At the point where mild cocaine use was described in positive tones the Americans presumably blew some kind of outrage fuse. This report was never published because the US representative to the WHO threatened to withdraw US funding for all its research projects and interventions unless the organisation "dissociated itself from the study" and cancelled publication. According to the WHO this document does not exist, (although you can read a leaked copy at www.tdpf.org.uk/WHOleaked.pdf).

source: The Guardian [guardian.co.uk]

And finally: my own story on it. [nihilarchitect.net]

With that said, I don't drink or smoke or use any other drug than Coffee and once used that thing in the blog post there. There's no hard line between drug and non-drug, sugar has certain properties of drugs, and so does meat. A chemical substance is a chemical substance and seeing that humans are ultimately complex chemical mixtures, any thing you poor into it shall alter the behaviour of it.

I don't smoke and probably never will, but I'm all for legalizing it. People my argue that it doesn't improve a person's quality of life, but that certainly was not the case with my father. My father contracted Hepatitis in his early college days and has had to live with the disease for more than thirty years. In his fifties, his liver started to go bad and he had to get a transplant. Not a particularly fun experience, made worse by the medication he had to be on afterwards.

Luckily, in recent years a number of exprimental treatments have come about and one showed some promise in helping about 60% of patients who underwent the program. Despite having the new liver, he still had the Hepatitis and eventually his liver would go again, even though he no longer drank or smoked. The treatment is much like chemotherapy. He had injections every week for 11 months, plus a number of different pills that were supposed to offset some of the side effects. Still, he was always nautious, his body weakened, his sense of taste dulled, and he became depressed.

At home, he and my mother started to fight more often. My dad started to frequently talk about divorce and even suicide. His doctor recommended pot if he could find it. Luckily, my mother was able to get some from a coworker and it really made a world of difference for him. He got his appetite back, he had more energy, and he was a lot happier. I don't think he would have made it though that 11 months without the drug. That right there is enough reason for me.

I also don't buy the whole psychological issues argument. Can you honestly say that Marijuana has a worse effect on the average human mind than alcohol? Not only do people develop a dependency on alcohol, but it has a tendency to lead people to make bad decisions hurting themselves and others. People are more likely to participate in domestic violence or violent crimes under the influence of alcohol, but studies show no significant increase in violent tenencies in marijuana users. If we're never going to get rid of alcohol and it's negative effect on society, why not at least offer a safer alternative?

I know a lot about marijuana. I can say this because I was a habitual user from 1992-2008. Not many days went by without me puffing herb. There were, however, periods that I quit. The longest was about 5 months when I was in college full time and working full time.
There's some good arguments on here from both sides.
Let me tell you, from my experience, weed is what YOU make of it. It is something in life, like anything else, that if you ABUSE it...it will haunt you.
I was an abuser. This is a label.
The question is why was I an abuser?
Why does anyone abuse anything?
The answer is that we live in a world lacking in compassion, bottom line. We, here in the United States, live under a capatalistic health care system and many of us don't or can't afford the help we need to enjoy a healthy way of life. This can be especially true for those of us suffering with mental health issues.
I have Bi-Polar Type II. This wasn't recognized until AFTER I quit smoking pot, had one of many nervous breakdowns and was admitted into a VA mental hospital. I was lucky.
Many of Americans don't have this choice. To stay stable they indulge in drugs to maintain balance in life. They grind through the day to get to that finish line at home and find relief.

Besides what I stated above, there is also much to be desired from the effects of marijuana during the creative process. I spent a lot of my high time drawing, creating, imagining, studying art, etc. For me, marijuana became a sort of sensory deprivation box. I smoked and everything else kind of faded away. There exists a "hotline" straight to the creative process. You do become much more free in your thought and expression. Boundaries breakdown and everything is up for grabs. A bit like LSD, but much much more controllable.

I quit smoking weed in November of 2008. I had to begin trying to get my life in order once and for all. I had to give the medications and therapy a real chance. I miss it, I won't lie, but I'm done with it...for now...maybe when I'm older who knows.
I don't draw as much anymore. I'm not sure what that means. Maybe it's the medications I'm on now, maqybe it's the lack of marijuana in my system.
I beleive still that it should be legalized for many reasons. For the economy, for the poor, for the creative community, the sick, the recreation, etc, etc. It should be reinforced like alcohol. No driving under the influence. No one under 18.
If you grow your own, you should hold a permit, if your caught without one you should be fined. It's an easy, no-brainer, way for the government to make quick money.
yak

hotcakes
My hypothesis is that everyone who visits internet forums are either uninformed or pro-cannabis legalization.

Prove me wrong?

Well, assuming that or to be exclusive, there are two options by the definition of the operator:

- One is informed and pro canabis legislation
- One is uninformed and con canabis legislation

It seems like a done deal yes, Q.E.D. Even if we assume the or to be inclusive we have:

- One is informed and pro canabis legislation
- One is uninformed and con canabis legislation
- One is uninformed and pro canabis legislation

which is also true, not only on fora, but every where, if you're informed you're pro legislation namely, one cannot sensibly be informed and against it.

Skullbie
Legalizing pot will put out even more horrible stoner comedies staring seth rogan, this should be reason enough to ban it forever.

But for the argument that two more legal addictive substances make a right- we did try to ban alchohol, prohibition happened and sparked organized crime causing more harm than good, then it became legal again. It does more good than harm to keep pot away from the average masses. It's not likely you're going to see your responsible grandma light one up, it's going to be dipwad teenagers that think the drug-scene is 'hard-core man!'.
Yes they do this already in droves, but it'll just make the drove bigger, dumber, and more 'hardcoooore!!!' if pot was readily available at a store and not through the skitzy white kid with bad breath behind the high schools dumpster that wears a fedora and calls himself 'g-murder'.

I do think they should loosen up on the fines/punishment for small amounts of it though, maybe not a misdemeanor like colorado, but just be easier about it.

Then by that standard you must be against prescription drugs as well correct? I can easily get "heeeeeeeeey man" as you put it with vix nyquil too.

I hate it when people try to argue that pot use causes things like schizophrenia and mental disorders. Pot is so common place it's too easy to put the blame on, it's the most widely used illegal drug on Earht. If someone has a mental disorder then they very well may have smoked some weed before simply because so many people do it. Plus aside from the recreational uses there are a bunch of uses for it in industry, and medically it has helped a lot of people. Also if people are concerned about harshing their lungs with pot, why not use a vaporizer or make some tea/brownies/butter out of it.

And by the way this is from a guy who has never used pot once in his life and is for the decriminalization of all drugs.