Now, this isn't my opinion. This is inspired by a heated debate from my friend and I.

I believe she is quite ignorant for what she has said.

The original argument was spawned by me saying that I was about to delete her stupid canadian facebook friends off my friend list, just because they randomly added me and never talked to me. She apparently took that offensively, saying that "using stupid and canadian in the same sentence is BAD", and that made me start to get a little angry.

So then we get on the topic of the War of 1812. She stated, "canadians won the war".
Now, I researched this a bit just to make sure, and Wikipedia says...((if anybody says "oh, Wikipedia can't be trusted, anybody can edit that! Please leave now. Just don't even bother."

Wikipedia
The War of 1812 was a war fought between the United States of America and the British Empire – particularly Great Britain and the provinces of British North America, the antecedent of Canada. It lasted from 1812 to 1815. It was fought chiefly on the Atlantic Ocean and on the land, coasts and waterways of North America.

Now, if I've read that right, the war was only between the United States, and Great Britain. Yes?

However. It seems Canadians technically, WERE in the war.

Wikipedia
When the United States and the United Kingdom went to war against each other in 1812, the major land theatres of war were Upper Canada (broadly the southern portion of the present day province of Ontario), Michigan Territory, Lower Canada (roughly the southern part of present day Quebec) and the Maritime Provinces of Nova Scotia, New Brunswick, Prince Edward Island and Cape Breton (colony between 1784 and 1820). Each of the separate British administrations formed regular and fencible units, and both full-time and part-time militia units, many of which played a major part in the fighting over the two and a half years of the war.

But that was when Britain owned Canadian land, when it was called British North America. So technically, It was Britain who "won" the war, not Canada. Although you could say it was Canada, it was the Britains who were mainly fighting. America's objective was to capture Canadian land, while Britain's goal was to control some of the territory in America.

She argued that it was Canada who won, and kept saying, "Great Britain IS Canada." Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that a false statement? Great Britain used to own Canadian land, and it wasn't considered Canada. And nowadays, Canada is independent, not owned by anybody but itself.

She also argued that Canada is one of the greenest countries in the world. Ha. Canada pays America (most notably Michigan) to bring their trash over here to keep it clean, which doesn't help why we aren't green. Now I'm not saying that's the only cause, I'm just saying that if it wasn't for us letting them dump their trash over here, they wouldn't be as green.

Also, she said that Barack Obama is lazy, and has done nothing he has said he would. Well, let's see here. He's been in office for a little over a year, and has managed to get the Health Care bill passed into law, which is a major step in American society. (That can be debated as a positive or negative thing, however, but we'll save that for another time :P)

He also...

WikiAnswers
Passing the "largest" economic stimulus bill in American history.
Ordering the closing of Guantanamo Bay military detention facility and abolishing "enhanced interrogation techniques."
Setting a fixed timetable for withdrawing U.S. combat forces from Iraq.
Ordering 21,000 additional troops to Afghanistan and enlisting, with modest new assistance, European allies in a new multi-layered strategy there and in Pakistan.
"Returning science to its rightful place" by lifting the Bush restrictions on federally funded embryonic stem cell research.
Signing laws to expand children's health insurance (financed by a 61-cent per pack increase in the federal cigarette tax the adviser did not tout).
Signing a law meant to improve the ability of women who allege pay discrimination to sue their employer.
Diminishing the role of lobbyists in the White House
"Forge a meaningful statement from the United Nations" criticizing North Korea's launch of a ballistic missile.
Lifting travel and remittance restrictions for Cuban Americans who seek to travel more frequently to the island and send more US currency to their immediate family.
Appointed the first Latina to the US Supreme Court
Engaging world leaders in Europe, Turkey, Latin American and the Caribbean with "strength and humility."

Now. That seems like quite a big list there, huh. Yeah, he seems pretty lazy to me.

So, while the original argument was purely based on opinion, she tried to bring in fact to it.

Was she right in her "facts"?

Let me quote John Caparulo: "Come to Canada! It's like America except it sucks!"

That says it all. He is a genius so he knows.

Under normal circumstances, starting a thread with the title "Country A better than Country B?" on the Internet would be a recipe for a flame war disaster. Thankfully, we're not in 4chan.

Let's just put it like this. There are those who are immensely proud of their country and bigoted enough to brag about it, claiming that his fart smells like rosemary and cinnamon buns and that every other nation in the world is absolutely dreadful compared to his. I could easily join into this thread, explaining why my country is awesome and your's is not, pointing out all the things that make my place so great, while conveniently ignoring the facts that makes it terrible.

There are such things as biased views. You and your friend can look at a half a glass and argue if it's half full or half empty and both be right. In a way, you're right about the fact that the war of 1812 was between the states and the UK. In a way, your friend is right about Canada being part of that war because it was part of UK at the time, along with the fact that when Canada became an independent state, its inhabitants (who did indeed fight in the war) continued being the very same people who had previously lived there.

What both of you need to understand is that neither country is better or worse than the other. US of A has lots of qualities that makes it stand out while Canada has its own things that makes it unique. You can pick apart these facts and run around the bush for ages but in the end the whole debate is about pride. Your friend is proud about her country and doesn't like when some foreigner is saying that her countrymen are dumb. I can easily understand that (but then again, I'm a prideful wank). In return, your pride is being hurt because she's pointing out something, that's completely unrelated to the original argument, where your country is being belittled. Now you're seeking a confirmation from people, who were never part of the original argument and don't know the side of your friends story, about why she is so wrong and you're right. It's all about pride.

Yeah, there's pretty much no answer to this. Both sides will be littered with bias and patriotism. If anything we should be arguing about how nice our neighbors are. The USA and Canada have gotten along rather well.

Canada, we forgive you for sending Michael Moore here. You also gave us Basketball and Phil Hartman.

Hawk
Canada, we forgive you for sending Michael Moore here. You also gave us Basketball and Phil Hartman.

And Barenaked Ladies, and Celine Dion.

(Well...thanks for Barenaked Ladies anyway.)

Product Placement
In a way, you're right about the fact that the war of 1812 was between the states and the UK. In a way, your friend is right about Canada being part of that war because it was part of UK at the time, along with the fact that when Canada became an independent state, its inhabitants (who did indeed fight in the war) continued being the very same people who had previously lived there.

Hm...but the only thing that still confuses me is that, since Canada was not independent, wouldn't it be considered Great Britain that won?

Product Placement
What both of you need to understand is that neither country is better or worse than the other. US of A has lots of qualities that makes it stand out while Canada has its own things that makes it unique. You can pick apart these facts and run around the bush for ages but in the end the whole debate is about pride. Your friend is proud about her country and doesn't like when some foreigner is saying that her countrymen are dumb. I can easily understand that (but then again, I'm a prideful wank). In return, your pride is being hurt because she's pointing out something, that's completely unrelated to the original argument, where your country is being belittled. Now you're seeking a confirmation from people, who were never part of the original argument and don't know the side of your friends story, about why she is so wrong and you're right. It's all about pride.

Despite how my original post/topic title may have come out as some American who thinks his country is the best, that's actually not what I'm trying to figure out. Yes, I do love my country, but that isn't why I called her friends stupid (I wasn't referring to all Canadians), just random 14 year old girls that decided to add me, and never say anything to me at all.

And the confirmation I was seeking wasn't if America is better, it was just about the War of 1812, because I wasn't too sure on that. But thanks!

Ryuthehedgewolf

Product Placement
In a way, you're right about the fact that the war of 1812 was between the states and the UK. In a way, your friend is right about Canada being part of that war because it was part of UK at the time, along with the fact that when Canada became an independent state, its inhabitants (who did indeed fight in the war) continued being the very same people who had previously lived there.

Hm...but the only thing that still confuses me is that, since Canada was not independent, wouldn't it be considered Great Britain that won?

Yes. However, one could argue (which she apparently is doing) that when a country splits into two nations, they'll both have claims to their shared history, prior to the split. If Hawaii declared independence today, they'd be well within their rights to say that they participated in the Pacific war during WWII. Therefore you could say that both Canada and Britain participated in the war of 1812 since they were part of UK. However, she can't deny that it was the British crown that declared the war, not Canada and that it was mostly thanks to the superior British warships that it was so successful for them.

I have no idea how the history of that war is taught in Canada but it's quite possible that the education system there likes to up play Canada's involvement in it, focusing on telling them about Canadian borne generals who did well in that conflict. All countries like to claim that their contribution mattered the most which feeds into the ego for most people living in those places. You only need to look at the comments section in a WWII video on youtube for an example (" hur hur America kicked your asses hur hur " / " #censored# idiots. Russia didn't need any help to beat Germany you #censored#sucking assholes! " ).

Ryuthehedgewolf
Despite how my original post/topic title may have come out as some American who thinks his country is the best, that's actually not what I'm trying to figure out. Yes, I do love my country, but that isn't why I called her friends stupid (I wasn't referring to all Canadians), just random 14 year old girls that decided to add me, and never say anything to me at all.

You may know your intentions behind calling some people (who happen to be Canadians) stupid but she doesn't know what you're thinking. Scenarios like that breeds misunderstanding. She reads stupid Canadian friends and thinks "He's talking bad about Canada". You'll have to admit that the same thing would probably cross your mind if I'd suddenly start talking about how sick I've become of those stupid Americans who don't believe in evolution. I'm only talking about those groups in America that are trying to debunk evolution in favor of creationism but anyone can interpret that sentence of mine as a claim that ALL Americans are ignorant people who don't believe in evolution.

Basically I'm saying that the whole thing could have been avoided, had you've been more specific. You could have said something along the lines of "Man I hate that girl that friends added me and never talks to me. I'm thinking of dumping her from my list." whether or not she's Canadian is besides the point.

In some respects, Canada is better because:
- at least being a "john" or an "escort" wouldn't get you in trouble with the law unless you are out on the street soliciting. But if its hush hush, theres no law against it.
http://www.sexwork.com/montreal/law.html

- Our government is slightly less corrupt than the USA. Stephen Harper... as bad as he is... globalist... wannabe-Bush... and Bilderberg member... at least he doesn't seem to cave in to the propaganda about global warming. At least he's somewhat for oil drilling in Alberta. At least he's somewhat against Jokenhagen.
(Notice how this article bashes Stephen Harper for this.)
http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/canada/091216/canada-lags-climate-change

- People here are generally more polite and cool-tempered for some reason.

- There's more natural resources in Canada.
http://www.nrcan-rncan.gc.ca/com/index-eng.php

So far, Canada seems to be 10-15 years behind the Demokratik People's Republik of Great Britain and some U.S.S.A states. So far, I just see stage 1 of martial law which is the increased number of police, increased ticket quotas, and police being more rude especially against black people and minorities.
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20090515/mtl_tickets_/20090516
http://www.thestar.com/specialsections/raceandcrime/article/761310--elite-toronto-police-squad-goes-looking-for-trouble


Meanwhile, Canada is worse than the US (some US states) on some levels because:

- Gun laws are alot stricter in Canada than the USA
http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/cfp-pcaf/pol-leg/hl-fs-eng.htm
IMO, they're banning cell phones because they got built in cameras and they can video tape the police when the police are up to no good. While police in Canada may be a bit nicer than the police in the USA, they still do pretty objectionable things like setting up R.I.D.E. checkpoints. Someone ought to video tape them when they step out of line. This is why I carry a hidden camera with me ALWAYS.

- The USA seems to be more for free speech. I notice that with the way pastors from the USA would preach. Up here in Canada, a priest who came from the Philippines told me that he's not allowed to talk about ALOT of stuff because of the censorship in the church. He told me his favorite topic is the book of revelation and the mark of the beast and the end of days and yakking on about getting people to repent and saying it in a hellfire and brimstone manner.

Just my 2 cents... :)

kyupol
- The USA seems to be more for free speech. I notice that with the way pastors from the USA would preach. Up here in Canada, a priest who came from the Philippines told me that he's not allowed to talk about ALOT of stuff because of the censorship in the church. He told me his favorite topic is the book of revelation and the mark of the beast and the end of days and yakking on about getting people to repent and saying it in a hellfire and brimstone manner.

Us Americans find free speech the single most greatest thing in the entire country. Or at least I do.



Honestly, I think political boundaries are exaggerated by the public into a living being, or an ideal, or something they hold dear to their hearts.

Just saying.

THIS DEBATE HAS NO ANSWER! CASE CLOSED!

Us Americans find free speech the single most greatest thing in the entire country. Or at least I do.

Say wha?!?

YOU ARE EVIL!!! FREEDOM IS EVIL!!! BECAUSE WITH FREEDOM, WE ALL WOULD TOTALLY COLLAPSE INTO ANARCHY AND CHAOS! WE NEED MORE COPS! MORE POLICE CHECKPOINTS! TO HELL WITH THE USA CONSTITUTION AND CANADIAN CHARTER OF RIGHTS AND FREEDOMS!
http://www.madd.ca/

Over here... we LOVE being slaves and being ruled by commie thugs. And we LOVE Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton, George Bush, Glen Beck, Rush Limbaugh, and all the fake neocon and liberals you got down there who love building a police state! Ship them all over here!!! please!!! I beg you!!!

And oh... you can also take the freedom-loving MORONS we have over here so they can join your TEA PARTY. You know... these poeople:
http://www.wearechangeottawa.org/
http://torontotruthseekers.com/
http://owensoundfreepress.com/
http://www.wearechangevancouver.org/ [wearechangevancouver.org]


(seriously... I just had to get that off my chest... its just so insane...)

I was under the presumption that was all sarcasm until you had that thing in parenthesis.







Now I'm confused.

alwinbot
I was under the presumption that was all sarcasm until you had that thing in parenthesis.







Now I'm confused.

lol

Just so you know, I'm pro freedom and I'm not just a keyboard warrior. I've put my money where my mouth is. I've been involved in a few mini-rallies, hanging up posters, distributing flyers, handing out DVDs, etc. I've also had a few run-ins as well with police, security, and the highly brainwashed who seem to have absolute hatred for freedom.

Just check out my profile if you doubt me.

kyupol

alwinbot
I was under the presumption that was all sarcasm until you had that thing in parenthesis.







Now I'm confused.

lol

Just so you know, I'm pro freedom and I'm not just a keyboard warrior. I've put my money where my mouth is. I've been involved in a few mini-rallies, hanging up posters, distributing flyers, handing out DVDs, etc. I've also had a few run-ins as well with police, security, and the highly brainwashed who seem to have absolute hatred for freedom.

Just check out my profile if you doubt me.

I doubt the police, security, and "brainwashed" are against freedom in general, but probably hate insubordination and dissidence.

And I didn't doubt you.

do they have RC cola in canadia?

Police State Canada


Police State USA

Does it really matter which is better? Neither of them are Australia.

P.S. Alwinbot, don't bother arguing with Kyupol, it's like arguing with a brick wall if that brick wall thought Xenu was poisoning our water.

BffSatan
Does it really matter which is better? Neither of them are Australia.

P.S. Alwinbot, don't bother arguing with Kyupol, it's like arguing with a brick wall if that brick wall thought Xenu was poisoning our water.

Australia is also a police state.


Internet censorship plan gets the green light
http://www.smh.com.au/technology/technology-news/internet-censorship-plan-gets-the-green-light-20091215-ktzc.html

Australia to use face-scanning and fingerprints to combat terrorism
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/australiaandthepacific/australia/7296241/Australia-to-use-face-scanning-and-fingerprints-to-combat-terrorism.html [telegraph.co.uk]

Banned hyperlinks could cost you $11,000 a day
http://www.smh.com.au/news/home/technology/banned-hyperlinks-could-cost-you-11000-a-day/2009/03/17/1237054787635.html [smh.com.au]

No-warrant terrorism raids proposed
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/08/12/2653998.htm?section=australia [abc.net.au]

I can document every inch of what I say. And all you can do is respond with personal attacks. lol! That speaks volumes about your intelligence.

Japan is obviously better than either of them

Being a High School Student in Canada I'll just throw out what our perspective on the War of 1812 was.

Well, History isn't that popular of a subject in my school, but I enjoy it a lot. Our schools do teach us that technically it was Great Britain vs America, as opposed to Canada w/Britain vs America as we were still a colony at the time of the war.

However, the War was fought entirely over in what is now Canada and America as opposed to being fought in the UK. Throughout the war, the UK was never really under threat of being invaded or anything like that if I am correct.

Our schools don't play up the involvement of Canadian born leaders or anything like that, but the schooling can be summed up as "In 1812, Canada (with backup from Britain) unleashed a can of whoop-ass on America and burned their precious little White House. We fought this war in our backyard, not the UK's, with plenty support from British North Americans (Canadians). Therefore, Canada wasn't only in the war, we won it."

Like what PP said, if Hawaii were to separate from America, they'd still acknowledge WWII and talk about the Pacific War and Pearl Harbor, Vet's, etc, etc.

Neither country is better than the other. Canada has flaws (Our piece of shit PM and horrible treatment of our Aboriginals), just like the USA. (Healthcare, Teabaggers, etc) It's just Canada has been stereotyped for being the nice friendly neighbour to the powerhouse that is the United States.

But yeah, imo we kicked your guys' asses in 1812 :D

Canada won, Great Britian owned Canada at the time, hence the province of canada, So we DID win, But yet i have no problems with american people. But the truth is i was Canadians vs Americans because of the Province of canada supporting the SOUTH in the civil war.

All the british WERE canadian at that time.. :P

And now for the history lesson:

The leadership (the War Hawks) in the US Congress that brought on the War of 1812 wanted Canada and found an excuse with Great Britain's trade policy. Napoleon's Europe was at war with Britain and Britain didn't want anyone trading with them and that hurt the USA. However the War Hawks were from the western states (and the Old Northwest today's Midwest) and New England decided to boycott the war. New England even had a secession movement. So the War Hawks attacked Canada numerous times with ill-prepared militia and the Candadian fencible regiments with a few British Regulars whipped the US Volunteers time and again. When the Regular US army got up there we burned a provincial capitol and defeated Canada's attempt to invade the Old Northwest. The British troops in Canada were overwhelmingly Canadian in origin.

However. it was the regular British Army who attacked Maryland and burned Washington. There were no Canadian regiments present these were veterans of Wellington's Penninsular Army. The USA effectively lost the War of 1812 and it only felt like we won it because of the victory at New Orleans after the peace treaty was signed. It's not well known but the treaty allowed for last minute captures of territory so if the British had taken New Orleans they probably would have kept it. I mean after all it was 1814, Napoleon was defeated and the whole British Army composed of the finest infantry in the world would be sent over. We're just lucky that Lord Wellington had turned down the command of the army that invaded New Orleans and that an enterprising US rifleman picked off the British commander, General Pakingham who didn't understand how to use his own light troops in the manner that had proven so effective in the Penninsula. If the 95th Rifles had been used effectively at New Orleans the British probably would have won. But there was no way the USA was going to take on those tough Canadian fencibles and regulars again. That memory colored all other border incidents between the two countries during the rest of the 19th Century.

Britain wanted the war over so they could concentrate on the Congress of Vienna and the future of Europe. In fact at the battle of Waterloo in June 1815, most of Wellington's Penninsula veterans were not present because they were still en route from America.

Sure a few US frigates had shaken up the Royal Navy but by 1814 those ships were blockaded in port or flying British flags after their capture.

One hundred years later the Canadians would prove themselves some of the finest Commonwealth troops in World War One and the Royal Canadian Navy and Air Force would supply some of best the sailors and aircrews in the Second World War.

The Canadian military is still some of the finest professional soldiers in the world. I've trained with them and they even have women tank crewmen. Now that's something else the US Army could learn from the Canadians. After all one of the most successful weapons to come out of the current Middle Eastern Conflict originated in Canada. The Stryker 8 wheeled armored car. The Canadians taught NATO all about tank gunnery in the 1960s-90s at the Canadian Army Trophy tank gunnery tournaments. (The USA never won until the M1 came out in the late 1980s.)

And Canada definitely has a much better National Anthem and better beer.

Woah, Canada has tank tournaments?

LOL, instant +50 points awesomeness.

Not for or againist Canada. I'm American personally, and I like the song The War of 1812. Not sure who sings it but you can find it on YouTube.

-regiz the painter

regiz the painter
Not for or againist Canada. I'm American personally, and I like the song The War of 1812. Not sure who sings it but you can find it on YouTube.

-regiz the painter

Do you mean Johnny Horton's Battle of New Orleans?

Im reviving this topic from not too long ago, sue me.

From what my canadian history class has told me

We won.

I am canadian, but i have a different opinion.

The war of 1812 was between Canada and United States. Canada was not yet its own country, at this time i belive we wre split into upper canada and lower canada. (Not great at history, sorry.) Lower was the french and upper was the english, im not here to tell you all of the history before this like us supportinng the south and who Lord Durham was, you can google that.

The fact is Canada (Upper and Lower) Was still owned by great britian at this point. British and Frnech were the origanal Canadian colonies. Technically we did win the war in the end, you retreated but its not as if we made you, you chose to. Its not like we shot you back, you left. Which means, we win.

I like Canada better because it aint crowded.

Canada > America

We invented Nanaimo Bars :) that equals instant win sauce!

srsly though.

I can't say I -hate- America.. it has it's uses, like cheaper books... cheaper copics and of course. Cheaper cars.

I've never understood the whole fear of Canada and socialism, I wish we were more socialist :<

<3 all my american friends, you're all rad even though you didn't invent the nanaimo bar ;P

And free speech? I'm confused how people think we don't have that in Canada... jeeze, we have idiots doing their neo-nazi marches through the city centre protected by police... I'd say free speech is a go here.

oh yeah... and we supply a good chunk of the oil 8D = awesome-sauce

Everything costs more, and you pay sales tax even on real estate, utility bills, etc...


and people are way more racist here than in the US, or at least that's all I run into.