damn hopefully
but too late for 3,000 us soldiers that died for a lot of stupid decisions

where's the hell is bin laden? prolly laughing his ass off somewhere

He's sitting on all his weapons of mass destrustion, right? Yeah...

I hope something is done with this soon. We can go on all day about saving face internationally, but it doesn't matter anymore. The international community already hates the US and we are simply losing more and more people in Iraq in what is clearly another Vietnam (military power vs a 'to the death' ideology).

Hopefully if this works and action IS taken against Bush, we'll have our soldiers home before many many more of them die in this pointless war.

*sigh* I'll be glad when Bush goes bye-bye.

Out of curiiousity, what is the charge against Bush? Impeachment requires a formal charge of misconduct. I'm not asking someone to tell me what Bush has done wrong... I just want to know the actual charge.

THAT may be a problem. Apart from sucking too much ass, Bush hasn't exactly done anything illegal. Hopefully they come up with something, because this would suck if it fell through.

I keep thinking Gray Davis for some reason.

I don't know why. :(

God, that would be a miracle.

Thats never going to happen. Hes a bad president, but he never did anything ilegal enough to warrent a impeachment.

Phantom Penguin
Thats never going to happen. Hes a bad president, but he never did anything ilegal enough to warrent a impeachment.

He conspired to fabricate evidence and manipulate intelligence in order to justify an expensive, illegal and disastrous war...
hmmmm? That has to own fudging about a BJ.

If Bush goes, Cheney better go with him. Otherwise it won't make any difference.

reconjsh
Out of curiiousity, what is the charge against Bush? Impeachment requires a formal charge of misconduct. I'm not asking someone to tell me what Bush has done wrong... I just want to know the actual charge.

War Crimes?

SpANG
If Bush goes, Cheney better go with him. Otherwise it won't make any difference

Agreed, but at least we would have a guy who could actually shoot worth a damn.

AUTHORIZATION FOR USE OF MILITARY
FORCE AGAINST IRAQ RESOLUTION OF 2002 - http://www.broadbandc-span.org/downloads/hjres114.pdf [broadbandc-span.org]

A fun read... seems to me that Bush didn't live up to some of the criteria for war in the first place.

I'd love to see the whole administration go down in flames... and then a hand extended for world peace with an apology right after. Probably won't work... but seems like the right thing to do.

What we'll actually see is Bush's administration just ending, and someone else will stuck continuing the war in Iraq. If we pull out now, the whole country goes to poo... and I think that we'll be stuck there for many years.


Double O - I think it'd be tough to prove BUSH actually conspired anything.
The mediocre one - What war crimes are Bush responsible for? I can probably come up with a list, but I'm curious what you're referring to.

stupidity can't be an excuse

yes folks! a c+ student CAN'T be a good president

leave the important decisions to smart people from now on

ozoneocean

Phantom Penguin
Thats never going to happen. Hes a bad president, but he never did anything ilegal enough to warrent a impeachment.

He conspired to fabricate evidence and manipulate intelligence in order to justify an expensive, illegal and disastrous war...
hmmmm? That has to own fudging about a BJ.

LBJ did it, and he never got impeached.

well, just cause he did it...shouldn't set as a precedent for presidents to do whatever they liked.

i'm still waiting for facts that would force a nation to put troops down in the middle east. to me it looks like we just came to safe gaurd the oil.

north korea is a far dealier menace, and HAS concentration camps and the dictator kills people who don't agree with his POV says the people that ran away from them to south korea. besides have clear evidence of WMD that they wave around the surounding countries

Phantom Penguin
LBJ did it, and he never got impeached.

I'm pretty sure that was an escalation from what Eisenhower and Kennedy had already been doing... A serious escalation, based on a bit of a dubious incident, but it was already happening. While Iraq wasn't at all: complete containment.

ozoneocean
He conspired to fabricate evidence and manipulate intelligence in order to justify an expensive, illegal and disastrous war...
hmmmm? That has to own fudging about a BJ.

Unless theres physical evidence that he did so intentionally it won't matter. Everything the public knows is circumstancial, and while it paints an Oj Simpson-esq guilty sign, it doesn't PROVE anything. Someone inside the administration would have to defect confidential information proving Bush is intentionally misusing his power, and not simply botching up his damn job, because there's nothing illegal about that.

It's nice to dream though. Plus, yeah, Chenny would be president in his place, and thats almost a step down. From incompetant puppet to pure effin evil, which is really worse?

reconjsh
What we'll actually see is Bush's administration just ending, and someone else will stuck continuing the war in Iraq. If we pull out now, the whole country goes to poo... and I think that we'll be stuck there for many years

Ending the war is shortsighted now. Escalation is really the only thing that makes sense to me. I'll readily admit that we probably shouldn't have gone over in the first place, but now that we're there, we got to do it right, and having half the number on on ground troops needed to maintain peace and train the iraqi troops so they can maintain peace when america leaves isn't going to get anything done for years. Whenever I see troops in iraq talk about it they say the same thing. When I see soldiars wives talk about the war, thats what they say too. I'm going to side with the people who are actually there over politicians that are not every time. Politicians are using the lack of popularity of the war and of Bush as a soapbox to boost their own popularity. The average person just wants the war to end, whether or not its the right thing to do. I give John McCaine major props for sticking to his guns on escalation when its such an unpopular decision and he's starting a presidential run. It's the right decision, no matter how badly it sucks. This is just one of those situations where it has to get worse in order to get better.

If you read the first 2 pages of that link I posted in my previous post, it gives all the reasons we invaded Iraq.

Of course, there's a few that have been proven false... but the majority of them hold true still today. And proving that the "false" ones were Bush's fault seems difficult to me... but I'd still like to see him fry.

What amuses me the most about this whole war... is that WAR ITSELF is illegal under the Geneva Convention. I guess we had our fingers crossed when we signed it.

subcultured
stupidity can't be an excuse

yes folks! a c+ student CAN'T be a good president

leave the important decisions to smart people from now on

Also, amusingly enough, according to college transcripts, Kerry was a "C" student too and actually had LOWER marks than Bush. And Gore was a "B" student. Looks like none of the parties' final candidates from the last 2 elections could have ran the country based on grades.

What's that say about us as a country when our parties only seem to nominate idiots?

For the record - not ALL C students are idiots - I was a C student, and I don't think I'm an idiot. I just chose not to try hard at all.
What presidents need more than better grades, is the ability to think rationally, for themselves, and have some common sense.

I'm sure that if anyone looks hard enough they can find the evidence. It's just that obvious... The lies about Iraq trying to acquire Uranium that caused this thing with that CIA agent Vallerie Palme? SO many examples of that. I just don't think there's the will.

Escalation won't do anything, just make it more likely to spread beyond Iraq's borders to truly powerful countries like Syria and Iran (compared to them Iraq is a playground), not to mention the over a million or so Iraqi refugees in Jordan and however many elsewhere... Negotiation with Syria and Iran would be the best way, they're not true enemies of the US really anyway. Imagine Iran and Syria shouldering the burden of this mess! That'd take the fight right out of the wackos... Iran and Syria have more experience dealing with these kinds of terrorist groups and rebels causing uprisings on their homeland than the US does in Iraq.

ozoneocean
I'm sure that if anyone looks hard enough they can find the evidence. It's just that obvious... The lies about Iraq trying to acquire Uranium that caused this thing with that CIA agent Vallerie Palme? SO many examples of that. I just don't think there's the will.

Escalation won't do anything, just make it more likely to spread beyond Iraq's borders to truly powerful countries like Syria and Iran (compared to them Iraq is a playground), not to mention the over a million or so Iraqi refugees in Jordan and however many elsewhere... Negotiation with Syria and Iran would be the best way, they're not true enemies of the US really anyway. Imagine Iran and Syria shouldering the burden of this mess! That'd take the fight right out of the wackos... Iran and Syria have more experience dealing with these kinds of terrorist groups and rebels causing uprisings on their homeland than the US does in Iraq.

If I read it right, you're suggesting that Iran and Syria will have to shoulder the burdon if we pull out? Makes sense... someone will pay for the chaos in Iraq. Why not our enemies? Hmmm... that's something I never considered. And that might not be such a bad idea. That'd take care of THREE birds with one stone. Of course, our poularity might suffer... but seriously, can it get much worse?

At this juncture, what's the point? Even if he did get kicked out of office, by the time he's cleaning out his drawers in the Oval Office, they'll be swearing in President Obama.

Neilsama
At this juncture, what's the point? Even if he did get kicked out of office, by the time he's cleaning out his drawers in the Oval Office, they'll be swearing in President Obama.

So true. I find it difficult to accept that 'Neilsama' really wouldn't want to see Bush impeached on principle though. ;) I could be wrong.

Side note: I doubt we'll see President Obama in '08. Too difficult of point to debate at this time though. My money is on McCain.

reconjsh
McCain.

You're the only person I've heard say that so far.

I said it too, and typically I'm democrat. Mccain just strikes me as the one least full of shit, and most willing to stand up for what he believes is correct regardless of how popular it may or may not be.

McCain -- 2
Obama -- alot

Atom Apple
McCain -- 2
Obama -- alot

This is because it's 1.5+ years away from voting time. It's much, much too early to think that the person the media deams as the frontrunner will still be so in a year, when the campaigns actually start. McCain appeals to the majority of Americans - he's almost the perfect moderate. I made a case for him in another forum... I'll try to find it.

EDIT: here it is - http://www.drunkduck.com/community/view_topic.php?tid=26522&cid=241

Obama's gotta win the democratic nomination first. I wouldn't put it past them to nominate clinton. personally I think she'd be a godawful president, but riding the coattails of name recognition sure seems to work.

I got a hunch based on what I've seen within the democratic party that they will nominate someone other than Obama or Clinton. It's too early to guess who... but the democratic party is divided between these two candidates... each "half" is disgruntled at the other candidate and their "half" of the democratic party. This division might leave room for someone to manuever in and win some of the early primary states.

It's just a hunch though.

Remember a year from now that Jerome said this and that McCain will be the republican candidate (and he'll win too). Rub it in my face if I'm wrong... and woot-me if I'm right. ;)

Why does McCain seem like less of a Republican and more of a democrat?