Even though I long ago withdrew from the Human Race I still have a fair degree of pride about being an Aussie... egalitarianism... a 'fair go' for all... etc...

However this morning I am disgusted...

Colin, the baby whale, whose Mum is no-where to be seen is about to be 'euthenased'.

Colin has been hanging around some yachts in Sydney Harbour for a week, slowly starving to death. The 'experts' have refused to even try to feed him, even though orphaned baby humpback whales have been 'bottle-fed' and kept alive before.

It seems the 'experts' from the NSW govt have decided to save everybody the 'trouble' and simply put Colin down... arguing that without his Mum Colin is doomed anyway without her parental support and guidance in whale etiquet!

Whatever happened to 'giving it a go', regardless of the odds?... a supposed Australian trait, glorified every ANZAC day!

Yeah sure, if an animal is badly injured and in pain, put it down... (I grew up on a farm and tend to be a realist in such matters)... but Colin is simply a very hungry baby humpback whale, he should be given a chance.

wow, that sucks for the whale. and pretty stupid.

they could feed it so it wouldn't be "suffering from starvation"

Hey, I'm an American (which means I hove lots of reasons to be proud, and plenty of reasons not to be proud) but i encourage you to remain proud of being an Aussie.

However, I have to agree with the real Aussie view here - give it a go and a fair go for all!

In support of that, I present Ami:



We took in Ami and her friend Yumi this afternoon - they are abused rats (nasty story, trust me) for Fostering. We hope to fatten them up, socialize them, and find them forever homes. Because everyone deserves a fair go!

I say, rats or whales, give it a go!

That's so good of you, StaceyMontgomery!

I also agree, of course, that the decision about the baby whale is ridiculous.

About a month or so ago a stray Polar Bear got over to my country. They're not native in Iceland but every decade or so one finds its way over here normally by riding on an iceberg that's broken of further north. So far the solution to this problem has normally been to kill the trespasser since he's considered a threat but this time there was a huge controversy regarding this practice.

You see recently, due to the fact that everyone's panicking about global warming and climate changes, polar bears were put on the list of endangered species mostly because people believe that rising temperature is melting away its habitat. Another contributing factor is the fact that Iceland is more connected to the outside world then ever before so there was a concern whether or not killing the animal would be considered bad PR for the country. Regardless of that, the bear was put down anyways and to make matters worse, another one showed up a week later. That was a first. An effort was made to sedate him once a local news report claimed that Iceland's image was indeed tarnished while killing the first bear, according to several youtube vids that they discovered, but in the end the second bear was shot as well.

What I find mostly interesting about all of this is how much more sensitive the world has become regarding animal killings. People didn't give a rats ass about the whales 40 years ago and no one shed a tear when the polar bear that came to the country when I was a kid got killed. Mentality sure has changed.

One factor that's probably playing in your governments decision on killing that calf is that Humpbacks aren't endangered at all. If it were, let's say, a blue whale or a fin whale, who are endangered they'd probably would consider more elaborate projects to save it in order to demonstrate how much Australia cares about the world. Such projects cost money and they normally wouldn't waste it unless they see some benefits from it, for example good PR.

That is shameful but every country has its faults. No country's perfect. Besides, by saying you're ashamed to be an Aussie, you'd have to assume that all Aussies agreed to put down the whale, as if it was the decision of the whole country.

Anyway, poor whale. Why do humans decide whether it should live or not? =(
Hey, why don't they send it to a zoo then?

Jellomix
Anyway, poor whale. Why do humans decide whether it should live or not? =(
Hey, why don't they send it to a zoo then?

Well in that situation, humans would still be deciding whether the wale lives or not. We (humans) would be stepping in an interfering with the whales fate. If left alone the animal would most likely die. In this scenario, the Australian government has decided that killing it now will save it from the agony of starving to death. That's what you'd see if they'd decide to do nothing at all.

who cares ! it's just one stupid whale . if he's to dumb to find his mom than maybe he shouldn't survive and pass on the "stupid whale can't find mom" gene . isn't that the whole purpose of the prime directive of the ocean , and the reason that wildlife photographers don't jump in and save wildabeasts from lions ? if we go around propping up individuals that can't survive in nature , we are skrewing their species in the long run .

anyway the focus on this one whale is retarded because the Whole Ocean is slowly dying from chemical fertalizer runoff and global warming . if people really care about the whales they should stop using ethanol !!!

Oh miss Montgomery, I'm misty. Kindeness is my favorite virtue.

lothar
who cares ! it's just one stupid whale . if he's to dumb to find his mom than maybe he shouldn't survive and pass on the "stupid whale can't find mom" gene . isn't that the whole purpose of the prime directive of the ocean , and the reason that wildlife photographers don't jump in and save wildabeasts from lions ? if we go around propping up individuals that can't survive in nature , we are skrewing their species in the long run .

anyway the focus on this one whale is retarded because the Whole Ocean is slowly dying from chemical fertalizer runoff and global warming . if people really care about the whales they should stop using ethanol !!!

Firstly, the intitial evidence is that his Mum was the whale recently found stranded on the southern beaches... not that he was a 'stupid whale' with a 'stupid whale' gene.

Secondly, saving wilderbeests from lions would deny the lions and cause them to starve. This whale was not part of such a cycle.

Thirdy, humans are 'skrewing' this species (and untold others) with oceanic pollution, 'scientific' hunting, wanton destruction of the habitat, and general human greed... so when an opportunity to help presents itself we should do our best to help redress some of the damage we have caused.

What shocks me about his whole story is that Aussies tend to go out of their way to help anything and anybody 'down on their luck'. Generally speaking we are an environmentally conscious country with a very strong 'green' movement and usually come together with massive public support on such issues.

This time, however, we seemed to just swallow the beaurocrats 'passing the buck' and not wanting to take responsibility. They all just took the easy way out and the media just let them go ahead and do it. There was next to no public outcry.

I suspect if this had of happened during a 'no news' period, the media would have gone nuts... however the Olympics are on.

cartoonprofessor
What shocks me about his whole story is that Aussies tend to go out of their way to help anything and anybody 'down on their luck'.

Except for all those asylum seekers during the Howard government...

cartoonprofessor
Whatever happened to 'giving it a go', regardless of the odds?... a supposed Australian trait, glorified every ANZAC day!

very much a supposed trait, the only people I've seen promote this kind of trait is..well it's us, the aussies. It's like saying that an aussie trait is that we're all really good at sports or really good at using BBQs.

I can understand why they took the actions they did, 'giving it a go regardless of the odds' costs money and unless it was going to be all volunteer work it most likely would've cost a fair bit and to what ends would've it have accomplished while it was dying? unless you'd rather watch it starve or die from its injuries which no doubt would've brought the cries of "why are they leaving this animal to suffer"

I have to hope the "aussies tend to go out of their way to help anything and anybody 'down on their luck'" is a generalisation, you'd find in quite a few societies people will come to the aid of others in times of trouble or when someone needs a helping hand, Australia doesn't really do it any more than anyone else we just promote ourselves as such. Giving it a "fair go" isn't what makes us aussies, it's what makes people decent human beings and Australia isn't the world leaders in that ahead of anyone else, if we were all really that good you wouldn't have people sleeping out in the streets at night as we'd all be offering a guest room to the homeless or ensuring everyone has a place to stay and a decent meal.

If we still had the 'white Australia' policy then I might be ashamed to be an australian, but I need a lot more than euthanizing an injured and starving baby whale to bring me to share your feelings

Product Placement

Jellomix
Anyway, poor whale. Why do humans decide whether it should live or not? =(
Hey, why don't they send it to a zoo then?

Well in that situation, humans would still be deciding whether the wale lives or not. We (humans) would be stepping in an interfering with the whales fate. If left alone the animal would most likely die. In this scenario, the Australian government has decided that killing it now will save it from the agony of starving to death. That's what you'd see if they'd decide to do nothing at all.

Yeah, I guess if they thought it had no chance whatsoever of surviving/finding its mom...

cartoonprofessor
Even though I long ago withdrew from the Human Race I still have a fair degree of pride about being an Aussie... egalitarianism... a 'fair go' for all... etc...

However this morning I am disgusted...

Colin, the baby whale, whose Mum is no-where to be seen is about to be 'euthenased'.

Colin has been hanging around some yachts in Sydney Harbour for a week, slowly starving to death. The 'experts' have refused to even try to feed him, even though orphaned baby humpback whales have been 'bottle-fed' and kept alive before.

It seems the 'experts' from the NSW govt have decided to save everybody the 'trouble' and simply put Colin down... arguing that without his Mum Colin is doomed anyway without her parental support and guidance in whale etiquet!

Whatever happened to 'giving it a go', regardless of the odds?... a supposed Australian trait, glorified every ANZAC day!

Yeah sure, if an animal is badly injured and in pain, put it down... (I grew up on a farm and tend to be a realist in such matters)... but Colin is simply a very hungry baby humpback whale, he should be given a chance.

What do you suggest then?

Being an Aussie myself and also being one that watches the news quite a lot I cant believe people are making judgments just on pure emotion and not the actual facts. These are the facts: the baby whale was going to die. No arguments about it. Yes a whale in America was successfully saved but in Australia we did not have those resources and it could not be bottle fed. I don't even know why this is in a debate forum. It was going to die not matter what happened, so personally I would have preferred it to die peacefully and quickly instead of slowly and painfully. Get your facts right before you start a debate and do not go in with a solely emotional argument.

Oh people argue based on emotions all the time. Allot of outcries like "we have to protect our children", "the planet needs saving" or "the immigrants need to get out" are made by people who have have few or no valid points at all. By that I mean in no way that everyone who point out environmental threats or dangers to our youth should be ignored. Everyone has a right of an opinion after all.

cartoonprofessor
Firstly, the intitial evidence is that his Mum was the whale recently found stranded on the southern beaches... not that he was a 'stupid whale' with a 'stupid whale' gene.

Secondly, saving wilderbeests from lions would deny the lions and cause them to starve. This whale was not part of such a cycle.

Thirdy, humans are 'skrewing' this species (and untold others) with oceanic pollution, 'scientific' hunting, wanton destruction of the habitat, and general human greed... so when an opportunity to help presents itself we should do our best to help redress some of the damage we have caused.

1 - the baby whale would still be passing on "stupid whale" genes , just, it would be the "stupid whale can't stay in the ocean " gene intead

2 - dead whales ARE a party of the food cycle of the ocean , but a part most people don't see. the dead whales sink to the bottom where they are food for thousands of ugly little fish that nobody draws cute pictures of .

3 - i agree that humans are royaly skrewing the whales . but getting all teary eyed about one whale is not realy doing much to help the species and is more of a feel good subsitute for actual effort to save their habitat . similar to giving the poor special holiday meals and letting them starve the rest of the year.

This is kind of like the dolphins who strayed into the inlets in NJ and stayed Everyone gawked at them and were kept at a reasonable distance and the dolphins ate it up. They were having fun and resisted every attempt to get them back to sea.

Whales may be committing suicide (the jury is out on this) when it beaches itself of strays into areas where it cannot survive. What would happen if we could talk to the whale? Would it tell us that "I don't want to live." and we'd have to get it professional help?

What gives us the right to make those kind of decisions?

Product Placement
Oh people argue based on emotions all the time. Allot of outcries like "we have to protect our children", "the planet needs saving" or "the immigrants need to get out" are made by people who have have few or no valid points at all. By that I mean in no way that everyone who point out environmental threats or dangers to our youth should be ignored. Everyone has a right of an opinion after all.

All argument is emotional, that's why we have arguments.

There's no such thing as a pure fact based argument or a pure emotion based argument, the distinction is silly and only used as a poor arguing technique to discredit what another person says without actually addressing what they say.

The thing is that some arguments are more opinion based than fact based. And that's all.
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Kill the whale to "end its suffering" or let it live and try to save it: either choice has emotion and anthropomorphism behind it. Personally, when I come across a wounded animal I realise the end result will be exactly the same in either case, so I try and help it because that's my nature. Most of the time they live and will die later rather than sooner.

Hmmm...
McWhale Burger with cheese.

Seriously, tho.
Did you really expect the Elite to Share the Ocean with the animals?

ozoneocean
All argument is emotional, that's why we have arguments.

There's no such thing as a pure fact based argument or a pure emotion based argument, the distinction is silly and only used as a poor arguing technique to discredit what another person says without actually addressing what they say.

The thing is that some arguments are more opinion based than fact based. And that's all.

Fine! I may have worded it differently but my point is the same that you made. Of course all arguments are emotional. Arguments are always biased to the one making the arguments since they always address their point of view on the matter.

You may cut me a slack on using the word emotion instead of opinion before accusing me on using poor arguing techniques though. After all, this isn't my native language. :P

Product Placement
After all, this isn't my native language. :P

I would... but I've seen that emotion tactic use too many times. :)
Besides, I don't mean to address you specifically, just that general point in relation to this debate, it's a very important one.

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Your language thing also brings up an interesting issue though: there's a point of differing cultures here too. For instance, I remember when I read a lot of Norse mythology, being quite bemused at the way many of the gods and mortals behaved and acted, -until I realised those stories where conceived by people who thought about things in a very different way... not just because of the time and place but because of their environment.

Hey Cartoon Prof, Colin/Collette is & was an unfortunate event to have happened, & im not sure where you are in Aus, but the Mx in sydney had many articles & more than a fair share of "Vent your Spleans" about the issue & in the end i must agree that it was more humane to have Euthanized him/her han to have him/her starve to death or be picked at by sharks & the likes.

Just to state i dont like the the situation occured, but i would have to say i prefer the idea of a quick & painless (Well i assume, i dont personaly know what euthanasia fels like) as compared to slow & painfilled. :(

You shouldn't be ashamed for being Aussie, the people who decided to euthanize/not feed that whale should be ashamed. Take me for instance (a Canadian and damn proud of it), in Canada there are seal clubbers, whale poachers, and our Prime Minister is a shit head, but that doesn't mean I'm not proud to be a Northerner.