Motion controls was so fun when Wii first came out then it got boring and tedious. I think it's hilarious that Sony and Microsoft are releasing motion controllers now that the stuff is played out.

I don't own too many consoles, unfortunately. So, by default I suppose I can say I'm not bored of it yet. ;)

But from an outsider's perspective, I always thought this stuff was sort of paving the way for future gaming. A time when all of your bodily motions could be translated into the game. They already have a military suit that does this.

It's probably true that the Wii's capabilities are no where near that level. Though I heard the Motion Plus attachment actually does give a noticeable difference in sensitivity to your Wii-mote.

I was sick of motion controls right off the bat from playing Twilight Princess. There are only certain games that I care to use motion controls for. Sometimes the older methods are just simpler and more fun.

I think really, Microsoft and Sony are trying to tap that market because they are finally starting to realize the mistake they made going into this generation. I'm not a big Nintendo fan, but they did one thing right this generation. They didn't try to sell people on the future. They gave people something they could use here and now and didn't push tech people weren't ready for like HD and online.

On the other side, Microsoft relies entirely on Live for their profits. Games don't even matter so long as they can push people onto Live. That's the only real reason why so many games have dropped local co-op. Gamers certainly aren't demanding it with only 30% of Xbox gamers even having a gold account.

Sony's big thing was HD, trying to push their TV sales and the Blu-Ray format. They at least turned around pretty quickly when their goals couldn't be reached, though. At least, unlike Microsoft, they seem to somewhat care about putting out some good games, while MS's library seems to have fizzled the last couple of years.

I think the fact that New Super Mario Brothers Wii still tops weekly sales charts says a lot about what gamers want. A multiplayer game with classic gameplay, no online, and running in standard definition mops the floor with all these new hi tech games.

God I will kill to have NSMB online.

I don't play my Wii that much anymore (the motion sensor getting fried and subsequently replaced kinda killed it for me), but even with Microsoft and Sony playing follow-the-leader with their own motion controls I don't think it's getting boring per se, just standard "Cool new technology, let's copy it!" fare. Though by the looks of Move, the few years between the Wii release and the Move release appears to have been used to improve on the Wii's format. That's never a bad thing.

God I will kill to have NSMB online.

Why? It would just be a frustrating mess with the way Nintendo handles online. No voice or text chat, no way to coordinate anything. It would be like playing with three retarded AI players.

I agree, maybe on the next console when (and if) Nintendo finally gets the online thing right.

Anyway, on the topic of motion controls, I think it's too early to make sweeping judgments on the entire concept... Motion control for consoles is still so young. Wii's controls enabled a few new fun things but still have so far to grow, even with the MotionPlus attachment. Developers are still scrambling to figure out how to best use motion controls, and when not to use them. Then there are the developers that were going to make awful games anyway, and their terrible motion controls are basically a scapegoat.

Kinect and Move a fairly promising, to an extent. I've recently gotten a little bit more skeptical about Kinect, though. It's looking like Microsoft had to scale back its power to reduce cost, replacing its 640x480 cameras with the cheaper 320x200 variety. That, and there has been some less than encouraging footage that may or may not have been caused by flash photography.

E3 impressions and information seem to suggest that Move works pretty well. And I've heard Sony's been extra strict with how it's used, hoping to avoid the PS3 getting a lot of the same garbage the Wii got (I predict Move will get plenty of new kinds of garbage, though. Either that or not enough games at all).

I don't worry about motion controls. Your standard controller isn't going away. When a game comes along that uses the controls properly, I'll get it (And I do believe there are some motion control games that work well). Otherwise, non-motion games will continue to come out and I'll get those too.

Honestly, the most gripe, I don't get.
I can play Twilight Princess and not get tired, maybe that's because my wrist is stronger than a twig, or maybe it's because I excercise it too much. (That was a masturbation joke by the way)

Though I could not play Wario: Shake it/Dimension for more than 10 minutes before I put it back in the box and readied it for return. Shake the wiimote to attack, tilt it to aim the cannon which isn't precise, (Meaning it was HARD AS HELL to get right) it just seemed like they thought "Okay motion controls, can we MAKE A GAME AROUND THAT?" whereas for me, Twilight Princess felt like "Here's a game, also it's got motion controls."

Basically I don't mind motion controls, but Jesus Christ if they're used for EVERYTHING in the most inconvenient way possible it's just insufferable. Actually that's a bad way to put it, I loved Warioware, Wagglefest.
I guess it boils down to motion controls do not make a bad game good, but they do not make a good game bad.

I'm a Nintendo fanboy so I haven't done anything with Kinect or PSThrii, but the way E3 went, you'd be forgiven for thinking they're the fucking Messiah of gaming, when they will, like the Wii, get used in Hello Kitty Island Adventure, and almost forgotten in all other games.

Wow I just go on and fucking on don't I.

I figure that companies that sell exercise related products should take advantage of these next generation motion control stuff. I know there are already few games out there with the aim of exercising people but it seems like a neat way to make home workout fun. I mean they sell those dumb workout videos in truckloads so surely there's a good market for this out there.

Lazytown likes to cash in on the hype they generated back in their days. Maybe they can do something for the kids.

But for us couch potatoes, I have to say that I don't like wiggling my legs to move my character around.

I really think Playstation Move is the most horrible thing I've ever seen. It's so ugly it looks like a magical ice cream cone. They didn't even try to hide the fact that it's a total ripe off of Nintendo's controller. I used to think games becoming more mainstream would be a good thing but now I realize that just because your girlfriend or you mom plays games that doesn't mean they are playing Zelda. They are playing All Star Cheerleader or Ninjabreadmen.

So far, the Playstation Move seems to be the only one that actually chose the right path for handling motion controls. It basically works the same way it does for motion capture, instead of that backwards method Nintendo chose with the IR emitters. Detection range should be severely increased on the Move over the Wii remote and it's much easier for the system to interpret actual motion capture data than to try to approximate it based on angle and accelleration.

Besides, if you're going to complain about design aesthetics, the Wii remote isn't exactly original, either. With the nunchuck, it's basically an Ascii Grip V2 tethered to a TV remote. The button layout on the Move at least makes sense and doesn't use that archaic N64 "three-handed" approach, plus it looks like the designers at least thought about the possibility of people flinging the controller into objects or people. The curvature makes it much harder to just lose your grip on the device. It seems to share more in common with other devices desgined for mobility beyond simply point and click.

I figure that companies that sell exercise related products should take advantage of these next generation motion control stuff.

There are already a lot of exercise games on the Wii. Wii Fit (and plus), EA Sports Active, Biggest Loser, Walk It Out, Gold's Gym Cardio Workout, and the Active Life series come to mind, I'm sure there are more, though, especially when you consider the games which arn't marketed as exercise games, but have workout modes like DDR and We Cheer. I'm pretty sure both Kinect and Move already have exercise based games in the works (like Your Shape:Fitness Evolved).

It's ugly that's all I'm saying. I'm sure it works great. I just don't care. I'm bored of gimmicky motion controls. That's the point.

Looking at the list for upcoming Move games, the only thing I'd be excited for really is the Time Crisis title. But one game wouldn't be enough for me to blow a hundred dollars on for another peripheral. I may as well go buy Guitar Band Van Halen edition. I'd recommend waiting to see if it actually fulfills its potential before picking it up, but that's just me.

Honestly, it's all about the gameplay, I could care less if they're using some state-of-the-art machinery. When it comes to motion controls, it's going to have to just feel natural - that's really the only criteria that should apply. It's that preference in me that would recommend a game like Nyx Quest over a flashy title like Killzone 2.

As for the Wii, the only useless controllers I've had to deal with were the blaster (looks like a gun), and the wheel. As for the other controllers, they've definitely done their job. I don't notice them so much save for the first five minutes, and that's how it should be. Like for instance...Metroid 3? Wow, does that game feel fluid.

Thar fighting game for the Move looks kind of interesting to me. I'm sure most of the early games for both Move and Kinnect are going to have similar themes and approaches to what has made the Wii popular, though. I see sports, fitness, pets, and party games being a major theme already. If those aren't the kind of games you want to play, then by all mean, hold off on the technology. It's one of the major reasons the only game I've played in the last year ont he Wii is New Super Mario Brothers Wii. Most games either utilize the motion controls poorly, or just aren't really what I want in a game.

The problem I saw with the Move fighting game was the onscreen interaction of the charcters. The player was punching and it was probably doing a good job of translating the motion, but onscreen the punch looked slow, late, and awkward. I don't think we could expect completely instant reactions, though. I'll watch the game to see what it's like when it's done.

I had forgotten they were making a Time Crisis for Move. I'm interested in seeing that. I love those kinds of games.

Isukun, I figured you would have at least tried Sin and Punishment 2 on Wii. It seems like I remember you liking the developer Treasure, and the game actually runs pretty well and is fun and challenging.

I didn't really care much for the original. Treasure makes some of the best games on the market, or at least they used to, but even they occasionally have duds. Plus their track record for sequels isn't so hot (the only sequel they've made that I've liked was Ikaruga and even that wasn't as good as Radiant Silvergun) and I'm still not happy with how they handled the multiplayer.

While I loved their 16 and 32-bit generation titles, I think they started to lose steam once the PS2 hit the market. The only game of theirs I was able to get into since that time was the Astroboy game for the GBA (which, like Radiant Silvergun, Guardian Heroes, and Silhouette Mirage, I still play to this day). I wouldn't have minded trying out the Tiny Toons game they were supposed to release. I hear a near complete version got leaked, but I've never looked for it.

isukun
Most games either utilize the motion controls poorly, or just aren't really what I want in a game.

I believe that this is the core of the problem. As much as I love the Wii, I do accept that there are games that are just not suited for it.

Also, offline multiplayer is better than online. Just saying.

Also, offline multiplayer is better than online. Just saying.

Totally agree. That's why I still don't pay for a Gold account and I waited until Fat Princess released that offline patch before picking it up. It's not that hard to find friends these days, people just get too comfortable doing things the "easy" way. I still say the best times I've had playing video games was with friends offline. I really miss the good 'ol days of four player Puyo Puyo~n, six player vs. in Guardian Heroes, and staying up all night playing through Secret of Mana with a multitap. Games like Champions of Norrath, Guantlet: Dark Legacy, and Castle Crashers are becoming a rarity.

Even games that had offline multiplayer and/or splitscreen in the previous generation are going online only. The four player dungeon crawler genre has become a thing of the past unless you can play online, beat'em ups have gone almost exclusively single player, FPSs love to use the "graphics" excuse, and even games like Dynasty Warriors are starting to skimp on the multiplayer options or drop offline altogether. It's sad when rather than sitting in a room with your buddies socializing, kidding around, eating junk and playing games, you're forced to stay home because the only way to play with them is over the internet. Sucks for those who have spouses, significant others or family they want to play with since everybody has to have a system, a copy of the game, an account, and a TV to play these days.

I recall on another message board someone mentioning how offline gamers should get together and start a community somewhere. I'm almost tempted when my lease expires to look into getting a house in Hollywood and trying to fill it with gamers. Set up the living room with the projector and surround sound system with all the console hookups. Maybe pick up some of those classic "multicade" systems.

isukun
The four player dungeon crawler genre has become a thing of the past unless you can play online, beat'em ups have gone almost exclusively single player, FPSs love to use the "graphics" excuse, and even games like Dynasty Warriors are starting to skimp on the multiplayer options or drop offline altogether. It's sad when rather than sitting in a room with your buddies socializing, kidding around, eating junk and playing games, you're forced to stay home because the only way to play with them is over the internet.

Yeah, and on that note, one thing that I am tired of is the fact that every game that doesn't necessarily need a multiplayer has one anyway. It's like developers have this multiplayer tick box that they need to check off every time they make a game. Assassin's Creed 2? Singularity? These games stood on their own as a pretty good single player experience. I can't even picture what multiplayer would be like in their little worlds.

But yeah, if you're going to add multiplayer, might as well make it possible both off and online. Even a game like Starcraft could use it; you know, LAN parties and such. I guess that's their sacrifice by always having to authenticate online to play on an individual account in order to reduce piracy, which is prevalent in the gaming market.

With PC games I can understand the emphasis on online. PCs aren't ideal ssytems for local multiplayer especially when most games use the mouse and keyboard combo and typically you can't hook up more than one mouse or keyboard to a system.

Consoles on the other hand all sport at least four controller capability these days. Plus they are designed specifically to hook up to TVs and are meant for a communal setting like the living room. Traditionally the systems were meant to be used by multiple people at a time, but lately it's started to feel like the extra controller ports are just for show. The Wii is the only system that at least attempts to justify the need for four controllers. I still find myself breaking out the gamecube controllers for the few games I own for the system, though.

isukun
I'm almost tempted when my lease expires to look into getting a house in Hollywood and trying to fill it with gamers. Set up the living room with the projector and surround sound system with all the console hookups. Maybe pick up some of those classic "multicade" systems.

Add an upscale cafe and pasta bar, and you may have yourself a thriving enterprise which fills a niche.

You live... near IT businesses? Think of all the middle-class and upper-class geeks who secretly bemoan having no friends who enjoy the games they played as teens (or in college). Or they do have such friends, but it's difficult to get together in an appropriate place now that they're all adults.

And this cafe/bar/arcade can also allow fellow geeks to network. Over games. Geeks-turned-professionals don't play golf, when they can shoot aliens and zombies.

The only problem is that Nintendo etc will sue you for public use of their entertainment systems.

I'm sure there is some way to work that out. I mean McDonalds had Gamecube stations in some restaurants for a while and internet cafes seem to get away with having all of the modern console systems. One just has to wonder how you go about making money off this kind of thing? Cover charge? Drinks? Food? You still need to cover the overhead of the systems, games, and whatever people steal, as well. D&B makes it work, but they also charge for the gameplay and I don't think there is a big enough market for arcades to try to compete with them, even out here in LA.

An upscale club centered around co-op games could work, but it really depends on what games you can find to fill the niche. Nowadays console games may not be the best choices unless you can find some way to handle game saves, but even then you'd probably need a lot of TVs and systems for most games, and there just isn't enough arcade titles still coming out that support more than two people in the multiplayer. Classic gaming can only get you so far, but I would love to put together an establishment like that. An actual club/bar for gamers to meet up with other gamers.

Another approach might be to actually tie the club to a game design studio. The studio designs and creates the games that are presented in the club, but also sells them for the console market, possibly as DLC exclusive titles on PSN or Xbox Live. All of the games would be short (arcade length) titles which can be played with four people (minimum). There would be an emphasis on classic or arcade gameplay and the club could be designed so that the areas comfortably sit groups of people who can play together. To generate interest it's possible to hold special events for certain game launches with tournaments with prizes or sneak peeks at upcoming titles.

The more I think about it, the more plausible it seems.

isukun
One just has to wonder how you go about making money off this kind of thing? Cover charge? Drinks? Food? You still need to cover the overhead of the systems, games, and whatever people steal, as well. D&B makes it work, but they also charge for the gameplay and I don't think there is a big enough market for arcades to try to compete with them, even out here in LA.

Well, think the old arcades, and the modern internet cafes where Asian teens gather to play Counterstrike and MMOs... except cater this theoretical game cafe to an upscale/adult/professional crowd, rather than kids and teenagers.

You'll be serving alcohol, and maybe have smoking sections, so kids aren't allowed anyways.

Arcades are usually seedy. This place would be posh, or trendy.

An upscale club centered around co-op games could work, but it really depends on what games you can find to fill the niche.

I guess that runs the gamut from fun casual party games like from the Wii, to popular good multiplayer games that benefit from being on the same screen such as the new Super SF4 (and the upcoming MvC4).

As for game saves... that's easy you can sell/rent the console flash drives. Patrons can buy them or rent them and keep them at the place.

Another approach might be to actually tie the club to a game design studio.

Yes if you have the business and tech savvy, you can arrange such "indie games". There are some damn fun and innovative console-DLC games and indie PC games. Once you start the ball rolling, other indie developers likely would sign up.

The more I think about it, the more plausible it seems.

I don't have the business know-how or the investment capital, but it's fun to muse over.

Ha, I'm inclined to think about the ease for single women to prowl such a place for eligible bachelors with a good income, likely to be nerdy nice-guys who would be easy prey for pretty girls. If said pretty girl is good with games, she can have her pick of the place LOL.

Edit: That reminds me LOL. You'll need a couple of pretty (but non-threatening) waitresses. The bartender can be tough/threatening LOL, but hot.

Well, the flash drive thing doesn't work so well when two of the systems use different drive types for save games and the third doesn't use them at all. You would probably have to come up with a completely new piece of hardware that interfaces with a dedicated memory format and partitions the drive for all available consoles and systems.

I'm not sure such a club would really attract just the eligible geek bachelors. At least, from my personal experience with places like Dave & Busters, when you go after they start charging the cover and kick out all the kiddies, they still attract a primarily basement dweller group of customers and you don't see a lot of the well off "I own my own software company" types. I think the types of games would need to be carefully considered to bring in a more mixed crowd.

isukun
Well, the flash drive thing doesn't work so well when two of the systems use different drive types for save games and the third doesn't use them at all.

Hmm... well, which games are you're thinking of playing with like-minded "young professionals" that would need game saves? Using different flash drives aren't a problem. Not using one at all, is.

when you go after they start charging the cover and kick out all the kiddies, they still attract a primarily basement dweller group of customers and you don't see a lot of the well off "I own my own software company" types. I think the types of games would need to be carefully considered to bring in a more mixed crowd.

The type of games is part of the equation. But the general atmosphere, pricing, and cafe location are more important I think. Especially if you allow customers to bring their own game DVDs (you still charge for the TV, console use, etc).

You serve good food and comfortable decor/service... which elevates you above the internet cafes that Counterstrike teens populate, and allows you to charge a higher fee which also serves to elevate your patron population. But not so expensive that "you" wouldn't consider going there with friends.

This is all depending such clientele population exists in your city. I'm already operating under the assumption that they will want to hang out in such a place.

Also, the place needs to be designed to be "open." There can be a couple enclosed rooms for use, but I think it's best to allow mingling (which the typical internet cafe, with their cubicles, does NOT promote). Which is why crowd demographics is important.

I started hating motion controls half way through Twilight Princess. The only game I've ever played where they didn't detract from the experience was Metroid Prime 3, and tbh they were just kind of neutral there, not really any better or worse than standard controls.

As much more technologically advanced as the Move looks, I'm not really looking forward to it because MC is a bad way to play games.

And as for Kinect... no. Just no. God no.

EDIT: My favorite kind of multiplayer is when I can get a friend on the same console and we can go online together. It's too bad so few games allow it. There was like, Resistance 2, and then a bunch of games that I just didn't like.