lastcall

Besides, I kind of figure the whole point of the debate forum is to contradict people, is it not?

That's the funny thing, see. You seem to contradict everyone, no matter which forum thread you're in. "Being argumentative" and "correcting everything people say, despite the fact that they are entitled to their own opinions" are two very different things, and you excel at both of them (and that wasn't a compliment). You remind me of those little 9-year-old pricks who play WoW and insult people just to make themselves feel better.

Him correcting a FACTUAL ERROR makes him a prick. Him having different opinions from other people and being able to back them up is bad. This is interesting. Thanks for letting me know about this. I will hold the same opinion as everyone else from now on. Screw individuality!

Lastcall

Well, then, I'd just have to say you know very little about the animation process

I have a BFA in Animation. Do you? I'm entitled to my own opinion, and so is everyone else here. Deal with it.

Your opinion was wrong, based on your earlier post about the Thundercat people being Ghibli. Your BFA was well-deserved, apparently. Not all opinions are equal, especially when demonstrated they aren't. And if everybody's entitled to their own opinion, he's entitled to his. Deal with it.

Lastcall
One more thing: The forum thread says "Just remember to be respectful." You might want to keep that in mind before insulting and correcting people who are just as entitled to their opinions as you are.
That is all.

There's no rule against correcting people. Especially when they make factually wrong talking points. It's probably even encouraged. I didn't even see any insults. You, on the other hand...

Lastcall
"Do you enjoy being an arse on these forums?"

I have a BFA in Animation. Do you?

Actually, I have a masters, and I work as an animator (soon director) in Hollywood. Just in case anyone's wondering why I don't update my comics.

isukun
Actually, I have a masters, and I work as an animator (soon director) in Hollywood.

What are you working on?

Unfortunately, the general rule is you don't talk about current projects. The last thing I worked on, though, was DJ & the Fro for MTV. The show probably would have been better suited for Comedy Central, though. It was the brainchild of Dave Jesser and Matt Silverstein of Drawn Together. The title characters were actually cartoon representations of Dave and Matt, with Matt actually doing the voice of DJ. It didn't get the ratings MTV wanted in the first week, though, so the show quickly got bumped to a 1AM time slot. You might be able to catch reruns on rare occasions, but evidently the MTV audience preferred garbage like Sixteen and Pregnant and Silent Library. It was the first (and hopefully last) time I had to animate a floppy penis. Still, I definitely animated the biggest and best floppy penis out of the animators on our crew.

Wow, and I just realized they were nice enough to set me up on IMDB.

Did you also, by any chance, work on Crank Yankers?

If that's the case, then I now know your birth name. :P

No, but there were a number of people on DJ & the Fro who did. I was just on the animation team for that project, not a higher up. My real name's Aaron Seigo, but you can get that from either of my comics.

I liked Western cartoons way more than anime as a kid. I mean, I just never watched anime. But, if done right, I could like something even more as anime. Like that scene in Kill Bill vol. 1 that explained Lucy Lui's character. If that was done as a western cartoon, it would've been much less awesome.


But is there a name for cartoons that neither western nor anime?
Cause, I saw this movie that was neither of those, but it was 2D animation, Fantastic Planet and I don't know what it would be called. Or anything else that is neither western nor anime.

Fantastic Planet is French, which would technically make it Western animation.

Also, fantastic planet is done with pieces of cut paper(sorry for my weird english), which gives it a different feel than what is usually mass produced. I'm surprised to see the title of this movie coming on the forum, I didn't know it was really known. =D

And for the actual topic, I don't think you can really say Japanese is better than Western animation unless you have see all the different types. I already heard someone say cartoons was "using" traits of "anime" like big eyes and such. But not all japanese animation characters have oversized eyes. I am not a fan the japanese animation(or mangas) that passes on the tv channels I have, like Naruto and Inuyasha firstly because they don't appeal to me. However, stuff like Monster interested me. For some it would be the opposite.

It is not only a question of personal view, it is also a question of what you saw in both genres.

demontales
Also, fantastic planet is done with pieces of cut paper(sorry for my weird english), which gives it a different feel than what is usually mass produced. I'm surprised to see the title of this movie coming on the forum, I didn't know it was really known. =D

I don't think it is well known, a lot of the movies I watch aren't.

But would that be considered westren animation, or is it just technically western animation?

It's Western animation. The definition of Western animation is just animation originating from a Western culture. It's kind of a generic term used to describe anything produced in the West, not just films using popular formats and methods. And Fantastic Planet, as far as arthouse films go, anyway, isn't what I would consider obscure.

Honestly, terms like anime and cartoon don't really denote a particular style, either. I prefer to avoid using the term "cartoon", though. While it doesn't denote a particular style, it does denote a particular medium. "Cartoon", when referring to a animation is just a shortening of animated cartoon". The term itself actually refers to drawn media, so there are types of animation that wouldn't be considered cartoons. Also, the term is not specific to any cultural background or nationality as it is used in English. Japanese animation is just as much a cartoon as American animation.

"Anime" is a borrowed word. It was originally meant to represent specifically animation produced in Japan. It wasn't until the late 90's that the fan community decided to start applying the term to anything which resembled the common anime styles. I still refuse to use the term to refer to anything that isn't written, directed, and produced in Japan. What's the point of the original designation if you can apply it to just about anything these days? Also, under that categorization of animation produced in Japan, there is A LOT of anime that doesn't fit the popular styles. Some may look more western in style, others may shoot for photorealism, still others may be totally different. Just check out some of Tezuka's shorts from the 60's . They're still anime, but nothing about them really follows the stereotypical anime style guides.

I have the same issue with the word "manga". For whatever reason, we don't call comics from other asian nations manga despite the fact that they completely rip off popular styles from Japan, yet for some reason we feel it's alright to refer to American comics drawn in the Japanese style as "manga". What the Hell?

When it comes down to it, the only real distinction between anime/manga and western animation/comics is the place of origin. Sure each one prefers particular styles and story types, but there is no case where a style is fully representative of only one nationality.

oooohhhh, I thought there was an actual style stuck with each word, not just the place of origin.

Well, Fantastic Planet, not in terms of Arthouse but in terms of general animation, I reckon is pretty obscure.

Just about everyone I know has seen it.

I feel like there are people comparing the writing in Japanese and American cartoons, when they should be comparing the Eastern and Western animation techniques.

If you're going to compare the writing, you should compare the differences and Eastern and Western fiction in general. The quality of the writing shouldn't be what you use to judge the quality of the animation.

You want eastern vs western animation?

Here's you eastern vs western animation!

demontales
And for the actual topic, I don't think you can really say Japanese is better than Western animation unless you have see all the different types. I already heard someone say cartoons was "using" traits of "anime" like big eyes and such. But not all japanese animation characters have oversized eyes. I am not a fan the japanese animation(or mangas) that passes on the tv channels I have, like Naruto and Inuyasha firstly because they don't appeal to me. However, stuff like Monster interested me. For some it would be the opposite.
It is not only a question of personal view, it is also a question of what you saw in both genres.

The simple fact that you can say that (bolded part) for Eastern Animation, but not for Western Animation, tells you why many people prefer EA over WA.

In WA TV series, you can find the equivalent of Naruto and (some of) Inuyasha, but if you want to find something like Monster, you'll have to go live-action TV and watch Dexter. If you want something like Ergo Proxy, you'll again have to go live-action TV and watch something like... I dunno, Firefly or Lost or something.

Wonder Woman? Hulk vs Wolverine? Are you kidding me? They're superhero cartoons. Yes, they're more badass, but they're still very much kids' fare. Not that I didn't love Wonder Woman awesome redesign and the great superhero action, but Death Note they were not.

Can I just say, Naruto has some of the most fluid fight animation I've ever seen. Say what you will about the writing and the characters, but the actual animation is incredible.

kingofsnake
Can I just say, Naruto has some of the most fluid fight animation I've ever seen. Say what you will about the writing and the characters, but the actual animation is incredible.

yeah, it's proably because they tend to use real-life people as an compraston for the animation.

there was that whole conversary over how both Cowboy behop and Naturo basically copied from an fighting scene in a Bruce lee movie....

not sure if you heard about that....

Aurora Moon, I wouldn't be surprised. It's common to use real live models as references as well as copies. And if they did it from a movie, they probably thought that no too much people would realise... but I have seen neither of these so I can't say for sure.

http://www.basugasubakuhatsu.com/blog/2006/04/19/naruto-vs-cowboy-bebop-blatant-anime-plagiarism/

Lulz.

Disney is also "guilty" of that: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WzyLZYYb2qk
Gotta admit,it is funny
But regarding these debate...Design wise,I prefer the American animation becouse it looks more familiar to me,I guess.
Anime girls really look adorable,but most of the design is becoming generic,and it relys on different haircuts and colors to indetify them.Most Anime males look too feminine to me,not just bishies(I know it is mostly cultural thing in Japan,and teen girl demographic for some reason prefers that design.
But,I was pleasently suprised with seinen and josei anime designs,which suit more my expetations.(In the past I was only exposed to shonen anime,oi,so I was a bit close minded about it.)
Some people complain that anime has limited animation,but at the same time more and more american cartoons are horridly flash animated to save money.

BTW-I still have no idea how Americans managed to make superhero cartoons with consistanly avoiding death or even a little blood.Only time there was "death" it was informed by the characters.And word "death" is forbidden,you are suppose to say,"he is...gone" xD

Actually, I kind of blame Don Bluth for those Disney examples. His group from Disney were really big on "drawing from reference". They pushed that idea pretty hard in their own films and it shows with most of their human characters. They have an almost rotoscoped look to them. Most of those examples were from Robin Hood, which Bluth and company had a pretty large role in animating. A couple of the exampes seem a little far fetched (like the two shots of the guys getting hit by mops which look nothing alike). Disney used to also have their new hires do that occasionally as a training excersise. It's possible with time constaints, some ended up being used in productions.

Honestly, the Naruto thing doesn't really mean much to me. It's basically just rotoscoping, which the Cowboy Bebop crew did for most of their fight scenes, anyway, and which is a technique that originated in the West and is still used here even in major theatrical productions.

It's true that in Japan, "anime" is effectively just their word for animation. I'm not sure they would differentiate strongly between Japanese and Western animation.

The generally held Western definition -- and, I would argue, the more useful definition -- restricts anime as Japanese animation specifically.

Now, it is technically correct to say that both Japanese and Western animation are 90% garbage, and both sectors have their shining examples of what the medium should be striving for. There are clichés, mindless throw-away junk, immature kids' stuff, and obvious marketing gimmicks on both sides of the fence, and one can't make a broad, sweeping generalization about Japanese animation being superior to Western animation. Those statements are all valid, but ultimately misleading and useless when trying to capture an accurate portrait of Japanese vs Western animation trends.


Below, I'll list some general qualities of Japanese anime vs Western animation that I've observed. By no means do they apply to every example of a show you can think of, and I've omitted qualities that apply more or less equally to both genres:

Japanese Anime
* Has the propensity to deal with complex, mature, or otherwise relevant issues on occasion (i.e. death, sex, cultural cyicism, everyday life, otaku subculture, politics)
* Often not squeamish about violent imagery, blood, references to sex
* Appeals to a wide age range. While most anime do target children or youth, there are still a significant number of adult-oriented anime. Anime can be action-packed, silly, or serious.
* By far, often limited to 2D animation
* Often feature original soundtracks, where music plays an important role. Not unusual to find fully-orchestrated music, but depends on the budget.
* Features developing plot and characters that evolve over the course of the series, and a season or two generally represents a finished story arc, if not the end of the series.
* Traditionally, emphasis placed on less frames of animation but more detail put into each frame


Western Animation
* Almost always targeted at children. Any "adult" cartoons usually have to be comedies.
* Increasingly reliant on computer animation and 3D rendering. I turn on the TV on a Saturday morning and everything I see is either 3D or looks like a Flash animation.
* Often glosses over deeper issues (death/sex don't exist, morality is black and white)
* Characters are usually static and do not change from episode to episode. Story arcs are almost always purely episodic, with no overarching plot developing over the course of a season -- this makes it easier to just make more episodes as they're ordered, with the goal being to just make as many episodes as possible.
* Traditionally, less detail put into each frame, but more motion.


Again, I'll say: While there are examples you can name that defy the characteristics above, those examples are meaningless unless they represent the norm. And we're talking about what the norm is.

Don't get me wrong, I loved Animaniacs, Tiny Toons, and Darkwing Duck when I was a kid. I like Spongebob Squarepants, The Simpsons, and Futurama. These represent typical Western animated shows, each of them are in stark contrast to anime.

I also enjoyed Avatar: The Last Airbender, and people tell me Wall-E and Up are amazing -- but those are still children's entertainment. Also, are those typical examples of Western animation, or are they the exception? In the West, animation is widely regarded as a medium for children, and the content is made to reflect that thinking. That kind of thinking is common, but not as restricting, in Japan. As a result, I can think of a dozen anime I'd be interested in seeing which don't seem like kids' stuff -- but on the Western front, where do I go after The Last Airbender? I'm at a loss.

I think the anime Monster exemplifies the differences between Western and Japanese attitudes about animation. Here a plot synopsis for Monster:

"Kenzou Tenma, a Japanese brain surgeon in Germany, had it all: incredible skill at his work, a rich and beautiful fiancee, and a promising career at his hospital. However, after becoming disenchanted by hospital politics, he chose to save the life of a young boy who got shot in the head over the life of the mayor. As a result he lost the support of the hospital director, as well as his position in the hospital and his fiance. A short time later, the hospital director and the doctors that replaced him were murdered, and once again he was catapulted back onto the top. But as the chief suspect of the murders, Tenma did not get a easy life. As a matter of fact, it seems that the boy he saved was much more than he had appeared to be... Now to clear his name and to correct his past mistake, Tenma must get to the bottom of these and other murders, and investigate the truth of the Monster who is behind all of this."

Now, I realize that a show of this caliber is a bit unusual in terms of Japanese animation, but it's not unheard of. My point is, this show would be impossible in the West. The culture, attitude about animation's possibilities, and television networks simply would not allow it. You can judge for yourself what kind of animation is "better," but this is more than enough for me to paint a pretty thick line between Western and Japanese animation. In my case, in order to find what I demand from an animated story, I have no reason to think that Western animation is the place to look.

F Y R E 13 R A N D
Now, it is technically correct to say that both Japanese and Western animation are 90% garbage, and both sectors have their shining examples of what the medium should be striving for. There are clichés, mindless throw-away junk, immature kids' stuff, and obvious marketing gimmicks on both sides of the fence, and one can't make a broad, sweeping generalization about Japanese animation being superior to Western animation. Those statements are all valid, but ultimately misleading and useless when trying to capture an accurate portrait of Japanese vs Western animation trends.

I totally agree with you there, and yet I feel like some of your observations were generalizations, simply because I could see so many exceptions existing.

I've seen enough inane, pointless anime that I know it's only a certain portion of it that deals with the deeper subject matter we all enjoy. And, I've been seeing a LOT of CGI in anime lately. You need look no further than Ghost in the Shell or anything current that utilizes space ships or mechs.

Also, there is a growing amount of adult-targeted western animation on the cable networks, particularly Adult Swim. Most of Adult Swim is complete trash, but it does qualify.

It feels a bit like you're comparing 100% of Western animation (both good and bad) to the 10% of good Japanese animation.

F Y R E 13 R A N D
and people tell me Wall-E and Up are amazing -- but those are still children's entertainment.

I strongly oppose that point. To me, "suitable for children" does not automatically mean "meant for children". I have a great deal of love and respect for a movie that can be highly entertaining for an adult and yet still accessible to children. But I'm kind of different. Sex and violence do not interest me, a good story does. And there are a lot of people out there who seek out anime for its sex and violence.

Hawk
I feel like some of your observations were generalizations, simply because I could see so many exceptions existing.

Yes, I was dealing in generalizations, simply because I see the topic at hand as a generalized "Japanese Anime vs Western Animation." What I'm trying to point out is that, as I see it, Japanese anime has a higher percentage of good series to watch, and a higher degree of variation in themes and genres. A Japanese anime could be a comedy, an action/adventure, a drama, a fantasy epic, a sports-themed show, or any number of different things -- and not be some kind of freaky exception, because anime is just full of freaky exceptions. Western animation, on the whole, has a much lower percentage of exceptions that aren't meant for children or aren't comedies.
Obviously I can't give you a statistic on this one. It's just my personal observation, and it's the conclusion I inevitably have to come to when I am looking for a good show to watch. When I'm browsing through Japanese anime, I could stumble upon several different genres, find genres that appeal to me and those that don't, or find series that are different from anything I've ever seen. Effectively, the fact that they are animated does not affect or limit the content. However, I simply cannot say the same for Western animation. When I start browsing that bin, it's 80% Disney-esque movies and other children's stuff, with some Futurama and Robot Chicken thrown in, and a very small amount of things like Avatar: The Last Airbender (which, by the way, is still aimed at kids, even if it is enjoyable for adults).

Hawk
And, I've been seeing a LOT of CGI in anime lately. You need look no further than Ghost in the Shell or anything current that utilizes space ships or mechs.

Oh, I don't deny that it's in there. I'm sure computers are at work in every part of anime these days. What I was trying to say is that there a far greater number of Western-animated shows that are completely 3D-rendered from the ground up. Seriously, I was out of town a couple weeks ago and flicked the TV on for a bit on a Saturday morning in my hotel room, and nearly every cartoon I saw was either completely 3D or was some sort of horrible, poorly-animated Flash product.

Hawk
Also, there is a growing amount of adult-targeted western animation on the cable networks, particularly Adult Swim. Most of Adult Swim is complete trash, but it does qualify.

It qualifies as what? As trash?
I really don't have some underlying agenda to promote Japanese anime over Western animation. If I say that I think anime is typically better, or has more variety of programming, that is just describing the current circumstances and not a binding rule. All I'm saying is, if someone were to ask me to recommend some good animated series that are enjoyable for adults to watch -- or even just a good show in general -- I'd feel obligated to recommend some anime. I'd be doing them a disservice if I started trying to cherry pick a very select few Western-animated series, having to qualify my recommendations with "Well, actually, most of them are complete trash."

Hawk
To me, "suitable for children" does not automatically mean "meant for children". I have a great deal of love and respect for a movie that can be highly entertaining for an adult and yet still accessible to children.

Oh, I can respect that as well. The impression I get, though, is that in the west, animation is seen as being for children first, and adults second. I agree that there are animated movies out there that appeal to both adults and children, but I see them as "A kids movie that is also good for adults," and not "An adult movie that accessible enough for kids."

Hawk
Sex and violence do not interest me, a good story does. And there are a lot of people out there who seek out anime for its sex and violence.

I agree, the main goal of a good series or movie is often a good story. Sex and violence are sometimes byproducts of that, depending on the themes explored. My point is that Japanese anime does not usually make a point of excluding those themes, where Western animation often does, or at least glosses over them.
I mentioned Monster as an anime that was primarily targeted at adults, and as a series that would never have been made for a Western audience due to the overall attitudes about the role of animation. The show has violence and sex in it, but it isn't about violence and sex, nor would anyone ever watch Monster with the goal of seeing violence and sex. Monster is all about plot, character development, atmosphere and dialogue. I can't think of a Western-animated show even remotely like Monster, nor could I honestly expect a Western animation studio to garner the funding or the desire to produce and promote such a show for a Western audience, nor could I expect that series to sell well if it did get made.

Very well-stated points, FYRE13RAND. Don't worry, I don't feel like you've got an agenda. I feel like you have an opinion, and it's a well-educated one that you're entitled to. And one I pretty much agree with.

While a preferences for Japanese animation can be boiled down to taste, it's pretty obvious that Japan has a healthier and more diverse animation industry than the West does. You're right, I wish I could recommend more adult-centric animation, but so much of it is garbage. I could recommend quality cartoons like The Venture Brothers or Boondocks, but as discussed before, those are comedies.

I do think the movies are doing a bit better job. You're right, they do target the children first. It's a profitable demographic to appeal to. But I think a lot of them still do a pretty good job of bringing in the adults. The Incredibles dealt with some very adult issues like the midlife crisis and cheating spouses, as just one example. I know you're not arguing against this point, I just like mentioning it.

You know, I think Western Animation will get better, and start to do some of the things anime is doing. They've started by superficially borrowing the art style, but I think the narrative qualities will follow in time. We'll see more Last Airbenders eventually. Anime fans are growing up to be artists, writers, and executives. It's just a matter of budget, which is a universal struggle, no matter which side of the globe animation is coming from.

My point is, this show would be impossible in the West.

Actually, something like Monster is not an impossibility in the West. The problem is that shows like that would never be ANIMATED in the West. Pitch it as a live action series and studios and networks would be much more receptive. Japan has a much stronger emphasis on visual style and presentation. With the popularity of the manga market, it's easier to sell a series which maintains the visual style of the manga it's based on.

This isn't the case in the US. In the US, the first question any studio or network asks you during a pitch is "why does this NEED to be animated?" I have a feeling that question comes up far less frequently in Japan, it is just assumed that any show based on drawn media will work better as drawn media (and they're probably right).

Can shows like Monster succeed in the US as animated shows? Of course they can. They have, in fact, but most have been either localized anime or Spawn. But in the end, it's easier and cheaper to create a live action show than an animated show, so if that option is available, networks and studios will take it 99% of the time. This is why we're seeing more live action garbage on Cartoon Network and why so many networks are putting most of their money behind reality TV in the upcoming year.

You know, I think Western Animation will get better, and start to do some of the things anime is doing.

One can hope, but I'm starting to doubt it. The last year was a terrible year for animation. Shows are getting more derivitive and several of the studios who were scrambling to complete their projects just a few years ago are now sitting on their hands while networks refuse to option new shows. You can't just rely on Cartoon Network and Nickelodeon for quality animation. Their standards are completely arbitrary with Cartoon Network ditching a lot of their popular shows and moving more into live action and CG and Nickelodeon picking up and dropping shows for the stupidest reasons, even if the show is popular. Even when Adult Swim picks up something good, they cancel it two years down the line in favor of the next Squidbillies due to cost issues. Unfortunately, the good stuff costs money and the bad stuff is cheap, which often leaves the bad stuff being more profitable. What sort of message do you think that sends to the networks?

Unfortunately, the anime industry in Japan is going through a similar crisis, right now. That's why we're seeing this flood of fan service laden derivitive shonen crap. It's all about making stuff on the cheap and hitting the fan community in the crotch.

Animation in general, Japanese and western, hasn't been the same since the 80s/90s in my opinion. Since 2000-2001, I've seen a decline on both sides of the fence. It's not just the quality of the animation itself, but the stories and characters. A lot of it has become redundant, cliche, and/or blatantly stupid.

It's really hard for me to get into newer anime series these days because I'm tired of never ending stories, ninjas who aren't authentic ninjas, recycled plots, big boob gags, too much chibi bullshit, and episodic stories that simply make no sense whatsoever. Oh, and girly men. *thumbs down*

In the past five years, I've only found a total of four anime series that I could really get into: Death Note, Soul Eater, Gurren Lagann, and Black Lagoon. I practically had to have my arm twisted to give each of them a chance.

Most of the anime series being released lately are disappointing, so I completely understand a lot of people's negative reactions. I've been a fan of anime for nearly 16 years, and in that time, anime has really changed. I remember when it had more of a foreign origin, a huge part of its appeal. But nowadays, plotlines and characters are becoming more westernized to appeal to the American audience.

And in a way, some western animation is trying to be Japanese. Go figure.

I think both western and eastern animation have done a lot of evolving over the past decade or so. Whether or not it's for the best is in the eye of the individual. Personally, I like that American animation is slowly being accepted as "not just for kids anymore," but we've still got a long way to go before animation is as widely respected here as it is in other countries.

Anime and Cartoons are the same, yet different in many ways. I must say i oribally have grown to enjoy anime more then Cartoons. Sadly, i must admit i have never watched a full anime, but thats besides the point. The art style is much more complex in anime but in cartoons its not that its worse but the style is different. The art in cartoons is usually less complex but has more of an easy going look, usually anyhow. Compare Dragon Ball Z and Scooby Doo. Both shows are very loved, and i enjoy them both. The story is great ( do not get me wrong, Some of you will agree with me and others will be angry that i compared these two ) Overall, I do have to say anime and Cartoons are equal.

isukun

Damn isukun, why do you always have to contradict everything that everyone says all the time?!?

If you're wrong, you're wrong and I'll correct you. Learn from it. It's not the first time I've pointed out this particular fact, anyway, and quite frankly it's not an issue of interpretation here. Wikipedia is frequently wrong about the obscure stuff, that's the problem with relying on a source of information that is largely based on hearsay and internet articles. Tokuma chose Topcraft to make Nausicaa since the staff were already familiar with Takahata and Miyazaki from the time they spent working there. When Nausicaa was complete, the movie did better than expected and Tokuma funded the creation of Studio Ghibli. The new studio brought over a large portion of the staff from Topcraft, which caused Topcraft to decline financially. PAC bought them out to take over the contracts with Rankin-Bass. All PAC got was licensing and a name. All the higher ups at the studio went their separate ways with the bulk of the animators sticking with Miyazaki and Takahata.

Thundercats was animated by a totally different team of animators. You can tell just by looking at it. It looks mothing like previous Rankin-Bass, Topcraft, or Ghibli works. Unfortunately, anime information on Wikipedia tends to be created by anime fans and they don't always know what they're talking about. They love to make connections where there aren't necessarily any connections to make, especially where Miyazaki is concerned.

WOW! That was very informative! I never knew about this. Thanks for shedding light on this.

As for me, I can't really compare between the two since both are far apart from each other. Anime , even though has a more fixed style approach the realism in their animation is captivated brilliantly through expressions & motion not to mention the character driven story lines. When it comes to TV series & stuff I can say I prefer Anime over Western in general.

But when you talk about the firm principles of animation from an animator's standpoint, Western Animation is fantastic. So in terms of movies I think western animation has a more firm stance. Both have their plus & minus points though.