Plastic man turned into a toilet and flushed a bad guy.
I will say no more.

harkovast
Plastic man turned into a toilet and flushed a bad guy.
I will say no more.

You know as ridiculous of a character as he is, Plastic Man is pretty powerful.

I believe in DK2, Miller's Batman called him the most powerful of them all even moreso than Superman....wait maybe that's why DK2 wasn't that great. :-/

Is this a joke thread?
Anyway...Joker has shirtless Nazi bodyguards in this comic. I'm pretty sure Frank Miller has lost his mind.

ccs1989
Is this a joke thread?
Anyway...Joker has shirtless Nazi bodyguards in this comic. I'm pretty sure Frank Miller has lost his mind.

Which is why All Star is that great.

ccs1989
Is this a joke thread?
Anyway...Joker has shirtless Nazi bodyguards in this comic. I'm pretty sure Frank Miller has lost his mind.

what're you, retarded? are you dense?

heh.

no the shirtless nazi woman was a direct reference to DKR.

heres a brilliant review from Geoff Klocks blog, who had an equally brilliant review of DK2 in the book BATMAN UNAUTHORIZED.

Someone
First off, this issue is paced much differently than most of the previous issues. As I’ve noted before, other issues in this series actually read very quickly. I can usually finish one in about 10 minutes (about half the time of a standard comic). This issue is denser; most of this can be attributed to a lot more dialogue (mostly internal) than the previous issues. Speaking of which, Miller’s hard-boiled style is in fine form here:

“A fog settles. Made for lonely walks and stolen kisses. Gotham floats, a cloud city, her million plaintive cries muffled, her predators moving freely, silently, leaving not even shadows.”

“Take an airplane over Gotham at night and she looks like diamonds against black velvet.”

“…. Every scurrying rat sounds like Satan’s claws….”

“A six year-old boy screams as bullets turn his mother’s brain into a wad and, almost two decades later, he still screams. He still screams and he’ll never stop screaming.”

A lot of people have criticized Miller as being particularly over-the-top on this series (one critic, apparently, suggested that the only way to save the series was to reprint it sans dialogue and let the reader fill in their own words) and, while there have been some cringe worthy moments, this issue is CLASSIC Miller. Sure, it’s melodramatic… but Miller has always been melodramatic. How is this any more over the top than lines like “The rain on my chest is a baptism” or “It’s the night when the city smells call out to him” from The Dark Knight Returns? To Miller, this is the kind of language he loves; it’s Hammet, Chandler and Spilane, these are his great poets. To him, this is poetry and, at times, I’m inclined to agree.

Miller makes great use of Gordon here as well who, as he did in Year One, takes center stage for much of the issue. Geoff has noted that Miller doesn’t like cops, actually that’s only partially true: he hates a) corrupt cops or b) clean cops who are too naïve to see the corruption around them (i.e. Superman and Green Lantern). However, he likes “good cops”; especially when they are ‘hard men’ like Gordon. Miller, by the end of the issue, will call back to hints dropped in Year One about Gordon’s past when, after Barbara tells him that “he has never done anything to tarnish badge” he thinks:

“I wish on my soul that were true, my darling. But there’s no need for you to ever know about Chicago.”

This is something that, as far as I know, neither Miller nor any other writer has really followed up on; even in Year One he leaves it vague, all that we know is that Gotham is meant to be a fresh start after some sort of ‘trouble’ Gordon was involved with in Chicago (I think there was some implication in Year One that he was on the take but, after his conscience got the best of him, he turned on the other, dirtier cops).

In the issue’s opening, Miller also uses Gordon to make fun of his own hard-boiled verbosity as Gordon delivers a very noir-ish monologue (cue lonely saxophone music in the distance), seemingly to no one, only to have it revealed that he has actually been talking to Batman who has been walking just beneath him on the docks (Panel Watch: page 3, Gordon leaning against the flashback panels. This is straight out of the Spirit. Just as Jason noted that Miller’s Eisner influence shaped Claremont’s economy of words in the Wolverine mini-series, so here does it influence Lee’s visuals).

And then, in my favorite moment from the issue, Gordon thinks:

“And does Mister Goddamn Batman say so much as “thanks”? Of course not, that’d hardly be GRIM AND GRITTY, would it? The jerk…”

First of all, Miller is acknowledging his own part in what would become the “Grim and Gritty” era of comics while simultaneously ridiculing it by having Gordon dismiss it by calling Batman a ‘Jerk.’ It’s also important to note that Gordon’s assessment of Batman as a ‘Jerk’ is important for how Miller views Batman; he has always felt that Batman should NOT be your buddy. He’s supposed to be scary, he’s not your friend but he’s the first guy you’d want to have your back in a dark alley. This informs so much of the way that Miller has portrayed the character, particularly in this series.

Miller gives us an interesting bit of background on Batman and Catwoman: they knew each other and were romantically involved in their adolescence. Hmmm, two people who share a young romance and grow up to be on opposite sides of the law? Sound familiar to anyone?

Batgirl is back in this issue and I get the feeling that Miller likes her a lot more than Robin and is using her as a sort of Carrie Kelly stand in. I also love that she is the ‘Fucking Batgirl’. I love the contrast of this with ‘The Goddamned Batman”. “Goddamned” is a very adult swear; it is a blasphemy and, as such, it carries weight. “Fucking” is a child’s curse word; it is shocking for the sake of shock and exactly the kind of thing that a rebellious youth would say to rail against the world.

I also like how, later in the issue, Gordon decides not to come down hard on his daughter because, as far as he’s concerned, she’s being hard enough on herself but, just a few issues earlier, you’ll remember that she was boasting about how great she was at bullshitting her dad. She’s playing him like a violin.

Black Canary shows up again, this time busting up a ring of internet pornographers and taking their money. She considers gathering her own group of “merry men” to assist her in her Robin Hood style crusade, quite appropriate when one considers that her main love interest has always been none other than Green Arrow (this really makes me hope Ollie is going to show up in the series… and maybe even the Question, I always loved that bit between the two in The Dark Knight Strikes Again).

So why has Miller decided to bring in Batgirl, Black Canary and Catwoman into a story that is, basically, supposed to be a Batman and Robin tale? It’s because Miller knows his comics history, particularly in terms of its controversies. He hasn’t addressed it directly yet, but I think he’s playing with something that is an inescapable part of the history of the Batman and Robin partnership: Frederic Wertham’s assertions that they were a “wish dream of two homosexuals living together.” DC answered Wertham’s original accusation by having Batman and Robin start hanging around with girls a lot more and the original Batwoman was, in fact, created specifically to address this concern (in a bit of what I am sure is intentional irony the new Batwoman is a lesbian). Miller dodged the issue in The Dark Knight Returns by simply making Robin female; here, he does just what DC did over fifty years ago: he gives the boys some girls to play with.

The last page of the issue is great. A distraught Gordon, his wife in the ER and his daughter in Jail, phones Sara Essen (who we all know will one day become his wife) and says to her:

“Right now. Just tell me about your day. I just want to hear your voice…”

Then, in his internal monologue, thinks:

“She washes over me and there’s no pain or guilt in the world.”

This is a pretty powerful (and powerfully fucked-up) moment that highlights how well Miller writes Gordon. In many ways, his Gordon is a much better character than his Batman. He’s far more complex in some ways and much more human. As a result, he gives us someone we can relate to.

We also see the hints of Gordon’s deepening friendship with “The Goddamned Batman” when he thinks that:

“There is one man I’d love to talk to. To tell all my problems to. One person. A man. and I’m not even supposed to know his real name.”

I love that he says he isn’t ‘supposed’ to know his real name; this is something many Batman writers, including Miller, have played with: the fact that Gordon has probably long since figured out who Batman is but, for the sake of their ‘professional relationship,’ plays dumb.

All in all, All Star Batman and Robin The Boy Wonder might be the tightest issue yet. This is, possibly, the best issue of Batman Miller has done since Year One. In much of the previous issues, Miller verged (and quite possibly crossed over into) self-parody. Here, he comes across much like his earlier work. Each issue of this series just keeps getting better and better… and I don’t care if I’m the only one who feels that way.

Ok, Nickguy. You obviously love ASBAR, but it is definitely not the only "real" comic being put out by DC.
I really don't care for it all that much. I enjoy Jim Lee's art, but I don't think Frank's writing works with Jim's art. Millers Batman is too over the top.

I enjoyed it in The Dark Knight Returns, I'm just not feeling it here.

It's also hard to stay into the story when you only get an issue every 6 months.

Secret Six is one of DC's best books that no one is probably reading.

zaymac
Ok, Nickguy. You obviously love ASBAR, but it is definitely not the only "real" comic being put out by DC.
I really don't care for it all that much. I enjoy Jim Lee's art, but I don't think Frank's writing works with Jim's art. Millers Batman is too over the top.

I enjoyed it in The Dark Knight Returns, I'm just not feeling it here.

It's also hard to stay into the story when you only get an issue every 6 months.

Secret Six is one of DC's best books that no one is probably reading.

I think you misunderstand what I mean by "real comic". I mean that in the way of...Frank is not afraid to mess with the characters and just tell them his way. everytime a creator gets on a book, they always write the characters the way that they have been written for the past 60 some odd years. It is always great to see someone break new ground. That is what is so exciting and real to me about ASBAR. it is a shame that it is delayed so much *I heard now its pushed back to april on CBR*, bu that is Lee's fault *hes said as much* as opposed to miller.

TBH I havent checked out secret six...probably because no one talks about it lol.

Aurora Borealis
I think Frank Miller is just taking the piss out of DC to see how far he can push them before they pull the plug. At least, that's the impression I got from the various bits I saw here and there

I hope you're right. I really do. But the truth is, it's been over ten years now since the last really, genuinely good comic Miller has written (300), and he's been slowly deteriorating into unintentional self parody ever since. I mean, really, DK2? Ugh. I really think the comedy in All-Star Batman is entirely unintentional and Miller actually thinks this is good stuff.

And yes, I'm reading it. Jim Lee's art is pretty, and... oh, I dunno, it's a slow-motion trainwreck and I can't stop looking.

spacehamster

Aurora Borealis
I think Frank Miller is just taking the piss out of DC to see how far he can push them before they pull the plug. At least, that's the impression I got from the various bits I saw here and there

I hope you're right. I really do. But the truth is, it's been over ten years now since the last really, genuinely good comic Miller has written (300), and he's been slowly deteriorating into unintentional self parody ever since. I mean, really, DK2? Ugh. I really think the comedy in All-Star Batman is entirely unintentional and Miller actually thinks this is good stuff.

And yes, I'm reading it. Jim Lee's art is pretty, and... oh, I dunno, it's a slow-motion trainwreck and I can't stop looking.

the part that no one can seem to get is that Miller is doing EXACTLY the same type of stuff hes been doing forever. look at DK2 next to the last Sin City he did...Hell and Back. artistically it was a simpler looser, more kirby-esque style...he wanted DK2 to look like the way comics in the 30s must have looked to kids with their 4 colors. big, garish, and fun.

ASBAR is so complexly layered, that on first glance it reads as shit but if you go back and compare it to past work and analyze it you see whats going on. miller loves drama. Batman saying "The rain on my chest is a baptism...Im a man of 30...of 20...im born again..." in DKR is no more dramatic than him saying "father...i think i may have to die tonight" in year one or better yet 'you've been drafted. into a war" or "a bullet kills his mother and father and a little boy starts screaming, hes screaming hes always screaming and hell never stop screaming" in ASBAR.

this is hardly a train wreck.

NickGuy

spacehamster

Aurora Borealis
I think Frank Miller is just taking the piss out of DC to see how far he can push them before they pull the plug. At least, that's the impression I got from the various bits I saw here and there

I hope you're right. I really do. But the truth is, it's been over ten years now since the last really, genuinely good comic Miller has written (300), and he's been slowly deteriorating into unintentional self parody ever since. I mean, really, DK2? Ugh. I really think the comedy in All-Star Batman is entirely unintentional and Miller actually thinks this is good stuff.

And yes, I'm reading it. Jim Lee's art is pretty, and... oh, I dunno, it's a slow-motion trainwreck and I can't stop looking.

the part that no one can seem to get is that Miller is doing EXACTLY the same type of stuff hes been doing forever. look at DK2 next to the last Sin City he did...Hell and Back. artistically it was a simpler looser, more kirby-esque style...he wanted DK2 to look like the way comics in the 30s must have looked to kids with their 4 colors. big, garish, and fun.

ASBAR is so complexly layered, that on first glance it reads as shit but if you go back and compare it to past work and analyze it you see whats going on. miller loves drama. Batman saying "The rain on my chest is a baptism...Im a man of 30...of 20...im born again..." in DKR is no more dramatic than him saying "father...i think i may have to die tonight" in year one or better yet 'you've been drafted. into a war" or "a bullet kills his mother and father and a little boy starts screaming, hes screaming hes always screaming and hell never stop screaming" in ASBAR.

this is hardly a train wreck.

I'm just going to agree to disagree with you here. I don't agree with a word of what you've said (except that I think Hell and Back was also pretty shitty, so I can live with the comparison), and if we get into this argument we're just going to be at it for a week and come to the exact same disagreement in the end. I've read all of Miller's relevant stuff, I used to be a big fan, and my perception of his recent writing and art is the exact opposite of yours. Different strokes, I guess.

spacehamster

NickGuy

spacehamster

Aurora Borealis
I think Frank Miller is just taking the piss out of DC to see how far he can push them before they pull the plug. At least, that's the impression I got from the various bits I saw here and there

I hope you're right. I really do. But the truth is, it's been over ten years now since the last really, genuinely good comic Miller has written (300), and he's been slowly deteriorating into unintentional self parody ever since. I mean, really, DK2? Ugh. I really think the comedy in All-Star Batman is entirely unintentional and Miller actually thinks this is good stuff.

And yes, I'm reading it. Jim Lee's art is pretty, and... oh, I dunno, it's a slow-motion trainwreck and I can't stop looking.

the part that no one can seem to get is that Miller is doing EXACTLY the same type of stuff hes been doing forever. look at DK2 next to the last Sin City he did...Hell and Back. artistically it was a simpler looser, more kirby-esque style...he wanted DK2 to look like the way comics in the 30s must have looked to kids with their 4 colors. big, garish, and fun.

ASBAR is so complexly layered, that on first glance it reads as shit but if you go back and compare it to past work and analyze it you see whats going on. miller loves drama. Batman saying "The rain on my chest is a baptism...Im a man of 30...of 20...im born again..." in DKR is no more dramatic than him saying "father...i think i may have to die tonight" in year one or better yet 'you've been drafted. into a war" or "a bullet kills his mother and father and a little boy starts screaming, hes screaming hes always screaming and hell never stop screaming" in ASBAR.

this is hardly a train wreck.

I'm just going to agree to disagree with you here. I don't agree with a word of what you've said (except that I think Hell and Back was also pretty shitty, so I can live with the comparison), and if we get into this argument we're just going to be at it for a week and come to the exact same disagreement in the end. I've read all of Miller's relevant stuff, I used to be a big fan, and my perception of his recent writing and art is the exact opposite of yours. Different strokes, I guess.

lol, I could give an issue by issue analysis of ASBAR and show you all the hidden messages, but that wouldnt make you like it.

I also disagree that this is nothing like his earlier work. Frank has always been about high drama and tension. look at 300, that was more dramatic than anything hes ever done.

"ready to die...they think they know what that means..."

Hell and back, while not being the best sin city story, is still a quite good one. Especially the trippy sequence. Loved that bit (not saying anything more to avoid spoilers). :)

http://www.newsarama.com/comics/020913-DiDio20.html

question 19. wtf, dan? is that the only answer you can give?

I'm not sure I know exactly what you want him to say Nick?

I get the sense that Frank Miller and Jim Lee are big enough in the industry to pretty much call their own shots. I'm not sure how much jurisdiction Dan Didio has to reign them in and force them to keep a regular schedule.

Dan has a bunch of problems right now because DC is a mess. Final Crisis was a pile of pretentious garbage that got killed in sales.

So until Jim Lee decides to stop farting around designing DCU online and Miller stops pissing on Wil Eisners grave, the next issue of ASBAR will likely be on hiatus.