So is anyone reading this? This might just be the closest thing to a real comic DC has put out in a long long time. You can tell both Miller and Lee are having a ton of fun with this one, and its a blast to read. and as a bonus its setting up to be the prequel to Dark Knight!


Thoughts?

You mean a prequel to Dark Knight Returns, right? Is it? Maybe. It might be the same Batman. Its definitely got that familiarity of the other Frank Miller Batman. Whether or not this is post-year one or pre-DKR, is hard to say. I'm not sure it should matter.

I know there's a lot of controversy over this book, the recent debacle included-- but I have to concur. For me, its a fun take on Batman, certainly more interesting to me than anything thats happening to the "real" (aka continuity) Batman. I think at first people didn't know what to make of it because its so over the top and tongue in cheek. And yeah, they ARE having fun with it. Its nice to see a combination of two such top talents come together so well!

mattchee
You mean a prequel to Dark Knight Returns, right? Is it? Maybe. It might be the same Batman. Its definitely got that familiarity of the other Frank Miller Batman. Whether or not this is post-year one or pre-DKR, is hard to say. I'm not sure it should matter.

I know there's a lot of controversy over this book, the recent debacle included-- but I have to concur. For me, its a fun take on Batman, certainly more interesting to me than anything thats happening to the "real" (aka continuity) Batman. I think at first people didn't know what to make of it because its so over the top and tongue in cheek. And yeah, they ARE having fun with it. Its nice to see a combination of two such top talents come together so well!

Dark Knight IS Dark Knight Returns. Forget the movie (which i will not comment on for fear of pissing a ton of people off), the term Dark Knight is referring to the graphic novel. It seems to fit that niche between year one and DKR.

I might be getting this wrong (since I read it 2-3 years ago) but I'm pretty sure the term Dark Knight originated in the 70s, somewhere during the Neal Adams days. Thus Dark Knight RETURNS.

Aurora Borealis
I might be getting this wrong (since I read it 2-3 years ago) but I'm pretty sure the term Dark Knight originated in the 70s, somewhere during the Neal Adams days. Thus Dark Knight RETURNS.

Yes.... the term has been around for a long time. IE- "Legends of the Dark Knight" etc. The same idea of "caped crusader" or "dynamic duo"-- it just happens to be in the title of DKR.

Though, I think he was just stating that he meant DKR originally.

Damn... I loved Neal Adam's Batamn.

Also his Green Lantern/Green Arrow.

Good stuff!

Speaking of GL.. and ASBARTBW... how about that scene where Bats paints everything in the room yellow to confront Hal on even ground! Classic!

Aurora Borealis
I might be getting this wrong but I'm pretty sure the term Dark Knight originated in the 70s, somewhere during the Neal Adams days.

Yes, you are! ;-)

I'm currently reading through The Batman Chronicles series which is reprinting all the original Batman stories in chronological order. I can't remember if the the phrase "the Dark Knight" is used in Volumes 1 or 2 but it's used extensively in Volume 3. That means it was in use at least as early as 1941 and, like much of the Batman mythos, was probably invented by Bill Finger.

mattchee

Aurora Borealis
I might be getting this wrong (since I read it 2-3 years ago) but I'm pretty sure the term Dark Knight originated in the 70s, somewhere during the Neal Adams days. Thus Dark Knight RETURNS.

Speaking of GL.. and ASBARTBW... how about that scene where Bats paints everything in the room yellow to confront Hal on even ground! Classic!

Yeah, what i meant was that before the movie came out, when anyone said the term Dark Knight they were usually referring to DKR.


and as for ASBAR....thats what im talking about! why hasnt anyone else ever thought of the idea to paint themselves yellow? its so absurd that his weakness, it makes perfect sense lol

NickGuy

mattchee

Aurora Borealis
I might be getting this wrong (since I read it 2-3 years ago) but I'm pretty sure the term Dark Knight originated in the 70s, somewhere during the Neal Adams days. Thus Dark Knight RETURNS.

Speaking of GL.. and ASBARTBW... how about that scene where Bats paints everything in the room yellow to confront Hal on even ground! Classic!

Yeah, what i meant was that before the movie came out, when anyone said the term Dark Knight they were usually referring to DKR.


and as for ASBAR....thats what im talking about! why hasnt anyone else ever thought of the idea to paint themselves yellow? its so absurd that his weakness, it makes perfect sense lol

I have to disagree on the first point. Legends of the Dark Knight/Batman: Legends of the Dark Knight ran from 1989 to (i think) 2007. Its a fairly general nickname for Batman. I knew what you were talking about because of the Miller association, but if we weren't already talking about AS Batman, I might have needed more clarification. That's neither here nor there for this discussion, though (you know how anal we comic nerds need to be).

But yeah... get what you're saying. On a more serious level (which given the over the topness of the book, is somewhat difficult to find)I think the craziness of Batman in the book is an interesting reflection of how a millionaire would interpret this second identity at first, without the grounding of the Robin "ward" figure aka responsibility. He's kinda like, "i'm gonna put on this costume, go out, and F stuff up.... cause I CAN!"

I kinda see it as an unexplored phase in the progression of Batman, which may or may not negate some of the year one type stuff (or accepted continuity in general... who cares)... where, maybe he's got a green phase, but once he's set in, he gets cocky... "I'm the goddamn Batman!" y'know? Then later, responsibility, etc sets in... okay, then we get the more even tempered (yet still dark) "detective" Batman that we usually accept as "present day"-- Later on he comes out of retirement... all or nothing... somewhat reverting back to this no-holds-barred guy, only much wiser for the wear...

I dunno... just speculating as to where this fits in. In general though, its just plain good fun....

haha.. as an aside.. there was an interesting progression of news where when Miller was interviewed about the recent recall/destroy of ASBM #10, at the end of the interview he said that at the end of the run, he'll have explained where the giant dinosaur in the Batcave came from, stating that its never been explained. Shortly thereafter, John Byrne pointed out the exact issue where the dinosaur came from....

I think Frank Miller is just taking the piss out of DC to see how far he can push them before they pull the plug. At least, that's the impression I got from the various bits I saw here and there (I don't read monthlies from the big two anymore, wake me up once it's collected).

And yes, I meant that the term Dark Knight is much older (didn't know it's THAT old though) and I've seen it popping up quite often, especially in the connection to Neal Adams, probably why I made that connection.

Now, there IS a volume called "Absolute Dark Knight" but it's titled in such fashion as it collects both dark knight returns and dark knight strikes back in an oversized hardcover. Still, I don't want to argue about a name so nevermind that. :)

Aurora Borealis
I think Frank Miller is just taking the piss out of DC to see how far he can push them before they pull the plug. At least, that's the impression I got from the various bits I saw here and there (I don't read monthlies from the big two anymore, wake me up once it's collected).

Vol. 1 is available in hardcover!

And yeah... there's a bit of that going on too.

well it is rumored that miller got paid 1 million dollars for DK2....


What I find most fascinating about this series is Batman's admiration for Dick Graysons skills. It's something we never have seen before in the Batman mythos. Robin is usually robin because he has to be. Here its more of a choice, of Batman being impressed with this kid. And, given the context of DKR and DK2, its kind of sweet and sad at the same time, knowing that dick grayson will fail him, and batman wont find a true sidekick till carrie kelly in DKR. it is very similar to star wars, with batman as obi wan and dick as anakin skywalker.

NickGuy
well it is rumored that miller got paid 1 million dollars for DK2....


What I find most fascinating about this series is Batman's admiration for Dick Graysons skills. It's something we never have seen before in the Batman mythos. Robin is usually robin because he has to be. Here its more of a choice, of Batman being impressed with this kid. And, given the context of DKR and DK2, its kind of sweet and sad at the same time, knowing that dick grayson will fail him, and batman wont find a true sidekick till carrie kelly in DKR. it is very similar to star wars, with batman as obi wan and dick as anakin skywalker.

woah! Mind blowing observation!

And 1 million? Wow... thats... sorta... nuts.

NickGuy
it is very similar to star wars, with batman as obi wan and dick as anakin skywalker.

*gasp!* Darth Nightwing! It all makes sense now!

DAJB

NickGuy
it is very similar to star wars, with batman as obi wan and dick as anakin skywalker.

*gasp!* Darth Nightwing! It all makes sense now!

well if you remember DK2, Dick DOES kill the creeper and The Guardian lol

NickGuy

DAJB

NickGuy
it is very similar to star wars, with batman as obi wan and dick as anakin skywalker.

*gasp!* Darth Nightwing! It all makes sense now!

well if you remember DK2, Dick DOES kill the creeper and The Guardian lol

I get what you're saying... he pours all his faith into this kid, and the kid turns out to be colossal screw up.

November 26th...issue 11 due to ship according to Jim lee's blog.

so i bought the volume 1 hardcover of this....collecting issues 1 thru 9...and i read year one first, then this all the way though including 10...


when this series is done, people are going to smack themselves in the face for ever hating on it or making fun of it. There is so much going on in this series that its amazing. the ramifications of gordons infidelity in year one have led to barbara being a drunk...events that happened in year one are referenced, and things to happen in DKR are hinted at...this is my favorite comic of all time.

Jim Lee still seems to be a bit awkward at drawing batman with a smile, but hes trying and it shows, especially in issue 9.

looking forward to 11!

I haven't read it collected yet (I have a hard time convincing myself to buy a HC when I've bought all the issues... but I'll probably make an exception for this, and Vol 2 (already have vol 1) of AS Superman... also fantastic in its own way), but right off the... er... bat I could tell that this was a comic that is done in broad strokes, and you really have to step away from it to appreciate the whole.

I'll have to re-read year one again too... hmmmm... been a LONG time.

Anyhow, the attitude is there, and Lee is at the top of his game... I, too, am looking forward to 11!

By the way.... any cool extras in that HC (y'know like pencils or script pages or commentary)? Or is it just the comics?

well theres all the variant covers (frank millers variant to issues 4 and 5 are my favorites) theres jim lee sketches, designs for early versions of batman and robin *robin was originally going to be a techno-teenster, by the look of it* an introduction by bob schreck, where he basically says "dont shoot me, wait till the end!" lol.

also some really cool close-ups of jim's panels begin every chapter of the book.


theres also an issue that i found by accident and im sure is impossible to find now, but...theres an alternate version of issue 1 where its just jim lees pencils and word balloons...and at the end is miller's script for issue 1.

ok.

I'm buying it.


By the way... I don't see #11 listed on DC's site to come out until 12/31....

well then maybe jim lee doesnt know what hes talking about?

http://groups.msn.com/artofjimlee

I don't think anyone knows! ha!

According to DC: #11 on dec 31, and #12 in Feb.

According to CBR DC december solicits: #12 on Dec 31.

I know that both issues were re-solicited... it could be that the Jim Lee site didn't update when the information changed.

so the waiting and re-soliciting continues....

Ive heard april and june as possible release dates...what the fuck is jim lee doing?

How to make batman better = kill off robin, then don't ever replace him or bring him back from the dead.
Simple.

harkovast
How to make batman better = kill off robin, then don't ever replace him or bring him back from the dead.
Simple.

LIES. batman needs a robin.

Couldn't batman just masterbate instead?

I haven't read much ASBAR but what I have read, I have not liked. Sure, it could be argued that it's a fun take on Batman but for me, The Dark Knight Returns was a special one-of-a-kind thing in comics. Sort of like Watchmen. In my opinion, to go back and revisit that version of the character takes away some of the mystique that made DKR so great in the first place. Just my take on it, anyway.

Dark Knight returns was great, though did get noticiably weaker towards the end.
As for Dark Knight Strikes Again....if you read it you have alreayd suffered enough without me mocking you.
But rest assured, I share your pain!

NickGuy
So is anyone reading this? This might just be the closest thing to a real comic DC has put out in a long long time. You can tell both Miller and Lee are having a ton of fun with this one, and its a blast to read. and as a bonus its setting up to be the prequel to Dark Knight!


Thoughts?

I wouldn't say it is the only real comic being produced but I also think it is a blast to read. Miller has taken it so far over the top that I can't help but laugh at everything. Not being a huge Miller fan in general I found myself surpised when I first started to read this series. I look forward to each issue, when they eventually come out, because I know I am going to get a good laugh and be entertained.

DK2 was brilliant, youre on drugs.