Must be my economic class and upbringing, but I have trouble picturing a household that can run on a single income. In the neighborhood where I grew up, there wasn't anyone -- of either gender -- over 20 (especially the parents) who didn't have a job. All of my friends' parents met at their workplaces. And those marriages have lasted. Maybe it's because they were already mature individuals before entering into that commitment, and maybe it's because they already knew themselves and were able to support themselves before joining up with someone else who could also stand on their own two feet.

While marriage/kids can force people to grow up, I honestly think it works out better much more often if the people entering into it are already "grown up." Young marriages do work sometimes, but it's a much harder road because chances are both parties are still going to be changing, growing, and going through general turmoils of financial and personal growth. That's an awful lot of strain for a union to endure. Most 30-somethings I know are not the same people they were at 20.

If you're not going to go to school, have a job, or be a house wife, what's in it for me? So, what, you want to spend my money while watching TV, getting fat, and being a lazy bitch all day? Not going to happen.
I don't know any women like that. (Well, most of the women I know I met in college.) My friend married a guy like that, though. No job, no school, didn't do housework. She had to essentially be his mom. We told her to stay away from him awhile but she was "in love." *rollseyes* Anyway, it does go back to my thoughts about being a stable, self-sufficient individual before considering marriage.

I'm 53, married at 23. Agree with Midge and DAJB. Hard work, but it works for me.

Well I suppose I was a bit hasty, and harsh, with my comment about you being misogynistic, Croi Dhubh, and I apologize. I find what you say, in theory, to be fine and understandable, although you could have worded it a little better. Both sides of a relationship, as I said before, have to work together to make it work.


Most women want a traditional man who opens the door for them, makes lots of money, comes home right away after work, gives them access to the accounts so they can spend the money freely, but they don't want to do anything that a traditional woman would do.

Well I don't know where you hail from, but I've never met a woman like that. In fact, if I went around opening doors for the women in my life, they'd probably kill me for being a chauvinist. lol!

And my comment about tradition is that there is none. Tradition, in your words, is a general basis of what things should be, but I don't see it like that. Why should there be a set standard of what things "should" be? Bull. Tradition is different to different people, and I'm fine with that, but I hate all-encompassing words like that. My idea of traditional isn't what other people's may be, so why should I use a word that won't apply to other people?

Someone
In fact, if I went around opening doors for the women in my life, they'd probably kill me for being a chauvinist.

What? You dun mean that. I don't care if they have feminist values or hold high-end jobs, women love it when men open doors or pull out chairs for them. Gentlemanly flattery has universal appeal.

For the record I'm not married but I do hope to be in the future. I'm not looking for immediate future mind you, just some vague future of some kind.

I would like to continue working though when I'm married. I am a bit neurotic in that I dislike being wholly dependent on a person.. I have nothing against depending on people but I just want my own financial independence. That's not to say that I'll hog all the money but a job gives me money and it is my initiative and choice to share it. (And I do share it. The way my family works is that all money goes into a family pool so it becomes family money and not so-and-so's money. I would like to continue that tradition when I have my own family.)

But I suspect that this level of thinking is a sign that I'm not really ready for marriage. I carry too much trust issues around. I also want a job because I want something that's completely and only mine (and it gives me something to do.) I guess in a way what I want is to share my life with someone but to maintain some part of me that is not shared. If...that makes any sense.

I also dislike cleaning so I think I'll make a poor housewife. :)

Steely Gaze
Well I don't know where you hail from, but I've never met a woman like that. In fact, if I went around opening doors for the women in my life, they'd probably kill me for being a chauvinist. lol!

Weird. Where I live, everyone holds doors for each other -- men for women, men for men, women for men, women for women... It's just courtesy.

Not that there aren't women who fly off the handle and read things into every little action. But those are the idiotic "super-feminists" that exist mainly in the realm of fictional stereotyping.

Steely Gaze

Most women want a traditional man who opens the door for them, makes lots of money, comes home right away after work, gives them access to the accounts so they can spend the money freely, but they don't want to do anything that a traditional woman would do.

Well I don't know where you hail from, but I've never met a woman like that.
Southern California, United States of America, and even here in Colorado, but not as bad.

dueeast
Also, I have to say, I really don't like the term "breeder." It's a bit offensive to me. I am a parent, not a horse or a dog.

Please keep in mind that "breeder" does not apply to ALL parents or married couple about to have kids.

It only applies to those people out there who seem so fanatical about the idea of Marriage and kids. They're the ones who claims that getting married and having kids is the ONLY WAY to have any real meaning in your life. That you're less of a person if you don't do those things. They're the ones who teach their kids to put it on the "checklist" for their own lives, and even will pressure thier own kids to get married soon as possible once they fhinsh high school.

They also seem to like imposing this ideal upon others. They're often saying things like: "Oh, Being Married is just peachy keen! So is having kids. Children are just SO WONDERFUL. EVERYONE SHOULD SERIOUSLY HAVE CHILDREN!!"

They're the ones who carry on in such a manner that it's actually creepy. I should know, I actually met a few. *shivers*
In fact this one lady once said to me: "Look at you, you're such a beautiful girl! Are you planning to get married any time soon? Because your children would be SO ADORABLE!!"
That just werided me out big time, how she said it...

Aurora Moon
In fact this one lady once said to me: "Look at you, you're such a beautiful girl! Are you planning to get married any time soon? Because your children would be SO ADORABLE!!"
That just werided me out big time, how she said it...

You watch too many horror movies.

Steely Gaze
they'd probably kill me for being a chauvinist.

What does militant nationalism have to do with anything? lol!
Ah... you mean male Chauvinism. ;)

Although, if you're using the militant term "Chauvinist", that would actually much better describe a woman who became angry at you for the door opening thing, unless you were being a bastard about it... lol!
-----------------------------------------

Heh, marriage is just a cultural institution... those things change and adapt. Now that there's same sex couples around who can marry as well as a lot more de-facto straight couples with children who never intend to marry, the thing has become a little more quaint.

It's no longer a destination on the timeline of life from single carefree youth to married adult with responsibilities. You can be an adult with responsibilities, kids a relationship, a career, a mortgage, without a spouse.

I like traditions like marriage though and I'm glad it still hangs around for us! :)

Hey Aurora Moon,

I appreciate your clarification. It is my firm belief that there are people who should not have children. Sometimes they themselves know it and sometimes, they and their kids suffer because they didn't know.

I have met people similar to what you describe but fortunately, not too often. lol! Strangely enough, even though it was invasive and insensitively implemented, they did pay you a huge compliment...just in a creepy way, I agree. :nervous:

Aurora Moon

dueeast
Also, I have to say, I really don't like the term "breeder." It's a bit offensive to me. I am a parent, not a horse or a dog.

Please keep in mind that "breeder" does not apply to ALL parents or married couple about to have kids.

It only applies to those people out there who seem so fanatical about the idea of Marriage and kids. They're the ones who claims that getting married and having kids is the ONLY WAY to have any real meaning in your life. That you're less of a person if you don't do those things. They're the ones who teach their kids to put it on the "checklist" for their own lives, and even will pressure thier own kids to get married soon as possible once they fhinsh high school.

They also seem to like imposing this ideal upon others. They're often saying things like: "Oh, Being Married is just peachy keen! So is having kids. Children are just SO WONDERFUL. EVERYONE SHOULD SERIOUSLY HAVE CHILDREN!!"

They're the ones who carry on in such a manner that it's actually creepy. I should know, I actually met a few. *shivers*
In fact this one lady once said to me: "Look at you, you're such a beautiful girl! Are you planning to get married any time soon? Because your children would be SO ADORABLE!!"
That just werided me out big time, how she said it...

dont forget you must make sure the other, is not to attached to their parents.that can lead to some problems, if say...you're moving very far away...she gets homesick...and the parents may not win out at first....but they will...oh they will....

and it helps if the parents like you as well...

When did people stop posting their ages in this forum? Some of you need to start telling! -Wags finger-

Anyway, I just turned 20, I'm almost a year into a long-distance relationship with a great girl, and I don't plan on getting married. The reality is I'll probably be a different person in ten years and I'll start thinking about things like family and all. Whenever an adult says to me "When you get older and get married and start a family...", I still shake my head and make an "Eugh" sound. As for now, I don't think so.

D0m
Anyway, I just turned 20, I'm almost a year into a long-distance relationship with a great girl, and I don't plan on getting married.

I hope she knows that...

I'm 38, so there-! 8D

And I agree with lastcall, you should be upfront with your long distance significant other. Communication is critical to any relationship. :)

D0m
When did people stop posting their ages in this forum? Some of you need to start telling! -Wags finger-

lastcall

D0m
Anyway, I just turned 20, I'm almost a year into a long-distance relationship with a great girl, and I don't plan on getting married.

I hope she knows that...

She actually told me before I told her. :P Hope it wasn't something I did...haha

D0m
When did people stop posting their ages in this forum? Some of you need to start telling! -Wags finger-

I'm 22, married and expecting a baby in about 4 weeks. :)

usedbooks

Steely Gaze
Well I don't know where you hail from, but I've never met a woman like that. In fact, if I went around opening doors for the women in my life, they'd probably kill me for being a chauvinist. lol!

Weird. Where I live, everyone holds doors for each other -- men for women, men for men, women for men, women for women... It's just courtesy.

Not that there aren't women who fly off the handle and read things into every little action. But those are the idiotic "super-feminists" that exist mainly in the realm of fictional stereotyping.

Yeah. I've been known to hold doors for men myself on occison, and I don't mind if men hold doors for me. =)

It's not a matter of tradition at all for me... its just a simple matter of courtesy.
Courtesy rocks, but tradition blows sometimes. That's what I think. :)

Congratulations! :)

Memmy
I'm 22, married and expecting a baby in about 4 weeks. :)

Breeder is a term used to be offensive to straight people from gay people.

Croi Dhubh
Breeder is a term used to be offensive to straight people from gay people.

actually, no. That's where you're wrong.

Yes it was invented by gay people, but it doesn't apply to ALL straight people.
Just the ones who seems to glorify having children and straight marriage as the reason why straight relationships are supposedly more superior than gay relationships.

And I don't know if you know this, but it's now being used by straights as well. The straights who use this term applies this to the procreating/marriage fanatics out there.

More on this here [en.wikipedia.org]:

"Breeder" can also be used as a derogatory term by child-free people of any sexual orientation to refer to parents who focus on their children and abandon their friends and lifestyle, or to women who give birth to many children for the sole purpose of getting governmental support or child support money. The phrases "breeder, not parent" ( B N P ) or "parent, not breeder" ( P N B ) are used by some child-free communities to differentiate between positive and negative parenting.

It can also reffer to people who have children for the sake of it.

A fine example of a "breeder" would be my aunt melody.
I dislike her SO much because she's so irresponsible when it comes to reproducing. She doesn't take birth control pills at all, and despite th fact that SHE COULD NOT SUPPORT KIDS AT ALL, she was always constantly pregnant. Just kept on popping out kids, one after the other with no concern of the consequences. Just said that if God and nature willed her to give birth, then she would do it.
Because she had so many kids (six kids), her house was so messy, that it wasn't even fit to be lived in.
Social services had to actually take her kids away, and yet she still continued to have kids until her doctor told her that her constant reproducing was giving her health problems, and so she had to have her tubes tied. Tube tying was something she should had seriously done from the start, as seeing she isn't the type to be a real mother.

It's thanks to people like her that I dediced to remain a Childfree person.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Childfree#Childfree_slang [en.wikipedia.org]

Aurora Moon
A fine example of a "breeder" would be my aunt melody.
I dislike her SO much because she's so irresponsible when it comes to reproducing. She doesn't take birth control pills at all, and despite th fact that SHE COULD NOT SUPPORT KIDS AT ALL, she was always constantly pregnant.

...Maybe she's Catholic?... ;)

I'm already married to my job.

lastcall

Aurora Moon
A fine example of a "breeder" would be my aunt melody.
I dislike her SO much because she's so irresponsible when it comes to reproducing. She doesn't take birth control pills at all, and despite th fact that SHE COULD NOT SUPPORT KIDS AT ALL, she was always constantly pregnant.

...Maybe she's Catholic?... ;)

I had a Catholic Aunt (great aunt actually...), she never had any kids. She was a nun. lol!
-truly

My mom wanted to be a nun, heh...she could pull it off--she's so hard-core Catholic, it's creepy.

All I have to say is I'm almost sixteen and I have no plans on getting married.
My dad wants an arranged marriage. And I was like "who does that anymore?"
If I had a choice I don't think I would get married until my late twenties.

Aurora Moon

Croi Dhubh
Breeder is a term used to be offensive to straight people from gay people.

actually, no. That's where you're wrong.

Yes it was invented by gay people, but it doesn't apply to ALL straight people.
Just the ones who seems to glorify having children and straight marriage as the reason why straight relationships are supposedly more superior than gay relationships.

And I don't know if you know this, but it's now being used by straights as well. The straights who use this term applies this to the procreating/marriage fanatics out there.

More on this here [en.wikipedia.org]:

"Breeder" can also be used as a derogatory term by child-free people of any sexual orientation to refer to parents who focus on their children and abandon their friends and lifestyle, or to women who give birth to many children for the sole purpose of getting governmental support or child support money. The phrases "breeder, not parent" ( B N P ) or "parent, not breeder" ( P N B ) are used by some child-free communities to differentiate between positive and negative parenting.

It can also reffer to people who have children for the sake of it.

A fine example of a "breeder" would be my aunt melody.
I dislike her SO much because she's so irresponsible when it comes to reproducing. She doesn't take birth control pills at all, and despite th fact that SHE COULD NOT SUPPORT KIDS AT ALL, she was always constantly pregnant. Just kept on popping out kids, one after the other with no concern of the consequences. Just said that if God and nature willed her to give birth, then she would do it.
Because she had so many kids (six kids), her house was so messy, that it wasn't even fit to be lived in.
Social services had to actually take her kids away, and yet she still continued to have kids until her doctor told her that her constant reproducing was giving her health problems, and so she had to have her tubes tied. Tube tying was something she should had seriously done from the start, as seeing she isn't the type to be a real mother.

It's thanks to people like her that I dediced to remain a Childfree person.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Childfree#Childfree_slang [en.wikipedia.org]

I take what Wikipedia says as seriously as I take Super Mario Bros being evidence of trans dimensional travel.

I've used the term "breeder" as well, so it's not like I'm saying only gay people use it. That's like saying only racist white people call blacks niggers.

Croi Dhubh
I take what Wikipedia says as seriously as I take Super Mario Bros being evidence of trans dimensional travel.

I've used the term "breeder" as well, so it's not like I'm saying only gay people use it. That's like saying only racist white people call blacks niggers.

Okay, whatever. I was just putting out information for you since it seemed like you didn't know much about it. =P

I'm 21, and have been married for almost a year and a half.

Young married, I know, but I'm happy. We've been together for 4 years, and I can't imagine being any other way. Like everyone says, it's a lot of ups and downs, and it's a lot of work (especially in the early days when you're still adjusting to sharing your whole life), but I've found it to be very much worth it.

It's not for everyone, of course, or even many people, and I can certainly understand the reasons for that. I'm just... different from most people, I think. Not in a good way, not in a bad way. I've always felt like more of a settling down type than the people around me.

My mum married at 20, too, and in those days it was perfectly normal. She's still married and happy 25 years on.

One factor in my decision was the fact that I couldn't stay here in the US with him for more than 3 months at a time without a Visa, and pretty much the only way to do that was to get married. I feel like that makes me sound bad, though, like I rushed into marriage just for a visa. It's really not like that, though. He'd already put a ring on my finger. Were things different, we might have waited a few years until we could have afforded a bigger wedding, but we knew 100% that it was what we wanted to do.

So it might not last forever. But how do you EVER know? I know people who were married 10-20 years before realising they weren't in love any more. I don't think it's ever possible to be perfectly sure, so why not just grab the bull by the horns and go for it if it's what's going to make you happy? And it truly does, for me. Even if you could look into the future and tell me my husband and I wouldn't be together in 10 years, I wouldn't change anything. The experiences this marriage has given me are worth it 10 times over. It's been an adventure and a growing experience. It's made me into the adult person I am today-partly through learning from and having a stable relationship with with someone 7 years older, and partly through the experience of moving to another country for it.

I'm lucky to have had the support of my parents. They've been wonderful, and they love my husband. <3

I'm looking forward to having kids, but certainly not yet. I'm not ready for THAT responsibility. ;) Maybe in 5 or 6 years. It is something we're both excited for, but we want to enjoy being married first- have some holidays on our own and enjoy having money that we can spend on ourselves. :D

This thread is turning into more of a 'Debate & Discussion' sort of thing....:spin: