Genejoke
Should they be combined? probably not as best website design does work well on it's ownw. Lettering though... maybe it could be combined with layouts or something. Just throwing ideas out there.

Nicotine
I think perhaps "Best Lettering", "Best Layouts" and "Best Backgrounds" can be consolidated into "Best Page Presentation". That will include everything that goes into making a page look great, besides color or black and white which obviously have their own categories. I judged "Best Backgrounds" last year, and it seemed really silly to look at something like that without taking the layout of the page and placement of bubbles, ect into consideration as well.

I think I've mentionted "storytelling" several times, since I consider it to be a key competence in making comics. Generally, making a page look nice on its own doesn't mean that it reads well. So, I think it makes sense to combine storytelling aspects and subsume them under layout (even though I think the other way around would make more sense, since theoretically, layout is a storytelling category - but practically, people will be able to judge layout easier than storytelling). On the other hand, I feel that backgrounds are more like "best art" - meaning, someone can be a lousy storyteller and still draw/paint gorgeous backgrounds.

But I don't mean to make things overly complicated. In a nutshell, both lettering and layout seem to be prime examples of storytelling to me, thus lettering could be conflated into the layout category. Backgrounds, not so much.

@genejoke

Not a thread, but images/comics to post on the awards site (since readers/voters will most easily find them there). And if we decide not to do that, I would encourage people to post such things on their own comics. Your favorites might not actively campaign, but you can campaign for your favorites. After all, finalists are chosen by readers.

The more we encourage people to vote the better. Same with encouraging people to be judges.

Also perhaps JNP (or someone) should send the admins a recording or script for the quackcast to help with that.

Worked overtime today. :P

On the subject of sociology... I should have clarified that me liking the idea didn't constitute me liking the name. I just meant we should combine them ^_^; I was thinking about a name for it today. Pretty much what you guys came up with.


I wasn't _wanting_ to remove best website. I was saying we may have to after The Duck sobers up. Best Lettering does deserve it's own category. Even creative usage with fonts to help express emotions are a part of it. But there were so FEW nominees at all last year for it. I think most people skipped voting in that category.

I personally would like to keep Layouts and Back Grounds separate. A background can help with the flow of the story but I think it mostly means "Oooooh, pretty pictures!" =p

I like the idea of "For your consideration" images.

Should we clarify Best Character Design being based on look of the character since technically we already have Best Lead Role that focuses on character depth?

Or just best design perhaps. sounds too broad I guess.

thinking of comics like pinky TA for example that have very distinct vehicle design as well as character. It could be down to architecture or the world. Weave also springs to mind.

I don't know. I'll already be adding more detail to the names of the categories. That may make the name a bit long :P

As for the web design for the awards. I won't worry about that till I see what The Duck allows us to do.

I'll open the site probably Wednesday and start asking for awards designs.

Nicotine
I'm in support of Best Couple,

I am, too -- although I substitute the word Duo for couple. I'd like the category to be broad enough that it could be a romantic couple or Batman & Robin, for example -- a well-written pairing.

as far as supplying artwork, roughly how much time is there between "assignment" and delivery?

I was actually talking about romantic couples. :P Not at all the same as a duo, imo. If it was "best duo" I doubt people would vote for romantic couples at all -- and there might be too few votes, because I can't think of many comics on DD with what I'd consider a "duo." Duos are cool, but there aren't many, and I think supporting character covers most of those relationships.

Besides, readers love coupling -- in all kinds of comics, not just romance-oriented ones.

"Best Couple/Duo"? That way you can vote for your favorite romantic couple or duo? xD

or maybe "pairing"? actually, I was thinking of Hasben and Hash -- neither a dynamic duo nor, well, I don't think they get it on.

---

also, I think it might be nice to have some recognition for those who update on a regular basis without fail -- a user award, I guess.

I like Nicotine's suggestion. I think "pairing" removes meaning from it. (Plus, it feels more of an action or a situation than the characters themselves.)

To me,a duo and couple are very different things, but it's okay to combine them into one category (chemistry is chemistry). I prefer Nicotine's suggestion because both types of relationships are represented, and it's clear.

ayesinback
also, I think it might be nice to have some recognition for those who update on a regular basis without fail -- a user award, I guess.

I don't think that's necessary. All of the categories I helped judge (and some I moderated/snooped on) took update frequency into account -- at least as far as they had more content to judge. I know for a fact that some comics lost out mainly on having so few pages/strips in the last year.

Besides, there are a great many comics that update regularly (even daily) without fail, and you can't say that one daily comic is better at updating than another daily comic if they both update everyday at the same time. I think maybe that's something that would work better as a DD profile trophy.

A most prolific user award maybe.... it may be self serving suggesting that though.

"Rapid Updates" might be a good trophy to Skool and the gang to hand out, like the one you get for posting 1000 comic pages or getting into the Top 100, but it's probably not a good idea for an award.

El Cid
"Rapid Updates" might be a good trophy to Skool and the gang to hand out, like the one you get for posting 1000 comic pages or getting into the Top 100, but it's probably not a good idea for an award.

I agree.

Genejoke
Or just best design perhaps. sounds too broad I guess.

thinking of comics like pinky TA for example that have very distinct vehicle design as well as character. It could be down to architecture or the world. Weave also springs to mind.

How about a category for character design and a separate one for mecha/vehicle/prop design? Those are pretty distinct skills, I'd say.

hmmm, good design is good design but I get your point. It shouldn't be restricted to props or vehicles. backgrounds and architecture... it could just be an expansion on best backgrounds maybe... I dunno.

Genejoke
Or just best design perhaps. sounds too broad I guess.

thinking of comics like pinky TA for example that have very distinct vehicle design as well as character. It could be down to architecture or the world. Weave also springs to mind.

If you want a fancy name for this it could be Best Artistic Direction.

Also, something I wondered last year. For the morst improved art, does the progression of the last year only counts?Looking back at the presentation of this last year it seemed it was the overall one. But the awards are supposed to be judged on one year. I'm kinda lost there.

I don't like combining those thing personally. I think there are some distinct differences. Maybe the names and what they encompass need fine-tuning for more clarity. This is how I see the art categories (and how I personally "judge" comic art when I'm critiquing something).

Best Use of Color
To replace "best color comic" -- or not. Best color art is a general award comparing color comics, whereas "use of color" would focus on the mastery of color and hue to convey mood and tell the story.

Best Use of B&W
Same

Best Character Art
To replace best character design -- for a clearer definition.

Best Backgrounds/Scenery
Encompassing all of the art around the characters (landscape, buildings, furniture, vehicles).

Best (comic) Layouts
Includes panel shapes and positioning, speech balloon placement, and general readability and "movement" (how a reader's eyes follow the pages.

Demontales
Also, something I wondered last year. For the morst improved art, does the progression of the last year only counts?Looking back at the presentation of this last year it seemed it was the overall one. But the awards are supposed to be judged on one year. I'm kinda lost there.

I think the moderators of the judging forum should stress that that category should include the whole body of work.

usedbooks
I don't like combining those thing personally. I think there are some distinct differences. Maybe the names and what they encompass need fine-tuning for more clarity. This is how I see the art categories (and how I personally "judge" comic art when I'm critiquing something).

Best Use of Color
To replace "best color comic" -- or not. Best color art is a general award comparing color comics, whereas "use of color" would focus on the mastery of color and hue to convey mood and tell the story.

Best Use of B&W
Same

Best Character Art
To replace best character design -- for a clearer definition.

I like "Best Use of Color" & "B&W" for a different reason. Judging "Best Color" was a little difficult at times for me last year because some comics (I know the Acrobat was one, and I'm not picking on it, but) used color for some pages and B&W for others, so it was hard to deem them a "Best *Color* Comic". I think if it's changed to "Use of Color/B&W" it will be easier for voters to vote for comics that sometimes use color and sometimes don't.

I think "Best Character Design" should stay the same. I think "Character Art" delves too much into the quality of the artwork not the consistency or appropriateness of the design. I think a new name might cause even more confusion than the old one, basically.

Fair enough.

Actually, I think organizing the ballots with subheadings might help too. It would make voting easier and could help us fine-tune award categories as well. I think award categories can be grouped like this:

Genre (or General?) Awards
Art Awards
Writing/Character Awards
User Awards
The Big Ones (best story comic and best strip -- best completed comic?)

Since there's no acting in comics (and character design is an art award), I figure character awards can go under a writing subheading with best dialogue (and/or best writing, however we want to address it).

Well last year it was definitely based on the year prior not the whole body. Which fits for some categories but not others. It made it a harder call for most improved art.

Genejoke
Well last year it was definitely based on the year prior not the whole body. Which fits for some categories but not others. It made it a harder call for most improved art.

Lol. I forgot about that award! I was even a judge! Yeah, it does need to focus on just the past year for fairness. And it is an important category too. There are a couple awards that we look at more of the work. Some comics have backstories judges need to know, and best completed comics should be judged as an entire work. That's why art and comic strip categories are considerably easier to judge.

Nicotine

Demontales
Also, something I wondered last year. For the morst improved art, does the progression of the last year only counts?Looking back at the presentation of this last year it seemed it was the overall one. But the awards are supposed to be judged on one year. I'm kinda lost there.

I think the moderators of the judging forum should stress that that category should include the whole body of work.

usedbooks

Genejoke
Well last year it was definitely based on the year prior not the whole body. Which fits for some categories but not others. It made it a harder call for most improved art.

Yeah, it does need to focus on just the past year for fairness. And it is an important category too.

Again, I think "Most Improved" needs to be the whole comic, to me it only makes sense that way. I judged it the year before last I think it was and looked at the whole thing, you get a better sense of how things have changed.

It definitely makes a difference to see a whole work, but it's also one of the least fair categories to do that in for annual-ish awards. Some people have had years to improve, while others might have been at comics for only a handful of months.

Saying "since the last awards" keeps the material and the winners fresh. We typically don't set anything in stone, and judges use their own judgement for what they compare, but it is important to maintain a level playing field. Again, judging is somewhat flexible, so if all the finalists are longer running comics, the judges might choose a different date or number of pages to compare -- as long as they are equal and include at least the last year.

We debated the most improved quite hard, and while we (or I at least) went through the entire archives of the comics we awarded it based on the improvement over the last year. I think that was one of the closest calls we made last year.

Definitely.

Keeping judging flexible is a good way to go. The type of finalists in the category can help dictate how they are judged. As long as the judges agree, and it's a level playing field for all the finalists, it works out fine. We have a pretty good system and always have great volunteers in place. -- We could always use more, of course.

EVERYONE SHOULD SIGN UP FOR A PANEL OR TWO.

Seriously, it's a fun experience and enriching to both critique DD comics in such detail and to interact with other DDers you might not usually talk to. Plus, being part of the process is just plain awesome. Being on one or two panels is not hard or too time consuming either. If enough people can do that, it would add variety and lighten the load for other volunteers.

Yeah, judging was good last year, although it was the categories I was less interested in I found more interesting to judge.

I'll definately volunteer to be a judge thise year

I agree with Used Books. Only Best Completed comic should be judged for the entirety of the comic. Most improved should just be judged for the prior year. Otherwise Charby should just win every time XD*


*does not denote JNP is saying Charby is actually better than everyone OH NOES the host is biased!!!

best western category?
Most improved writer/artist/color/tone