StaceyMontgomery
So just to be clear - This "sting operation" was set up and run entirely by NBC and their paid associates, the Police became involved later. Since NBC makes shows and is not a Law enforcement group, the end here was clearly to make a television show.

Look, NBC makes shows all the time. The ends of TCAP is... to catch predators. They just happen to film it.

NBC started airing NFL games on Sunday this year... would you argue that they play the games to make a television show?

TnTComic
The ends is not to make a television show. They just happen to film it.

Yep, that's unfortunately the wrong way around... As Stacey says, the ends are to make a TV show, they just happen top have some police in there somewhere... And, because of the silly nature of the whole thing, the legal consequences probably aren't as much as you think.

TnTComic
To Catch a Predator is a sting operation, plain and simple. They don't make the pedophiles show up to the house, just like they don't make the druggy try to buy, or the solicitor go up to the prostitute. I really just don't have a problem with sting operations at all.

In those examples you've used real situations, but unlike them no child was involved here at any stage, not even a teenager... But that's irrelevant really, that's not a realy sting. ;)
The true purpose of a "sting", the usefulness of it, is mainly to try and trap an actual felon; some slippery bastard who you know about but haven't been able to get any other way. That's a sting and they are indeed pretty good tactics. This however is just about fishing for losers to make TV. It's not even on the level of dressing up a policewomen as a hooker and putting her on a street corner, since the people they're trying to catch are doing all the work and all she does is wait. In this instance the TV guys and the volunteer group are "grooming" these idiots, guiding them every step of the way, holding there perverted hands (so to speak), and making them into what they need for the show.

The ironic thing is that the people who love this kind of TV, the ones who it's aimed at, are the disgusting, unthinking, gross, slimy underbelly, the very scum between the toes of our great society... The morons who revel in Jerry Springer, the closet paedophiles who watch music videos by the latest teen sensation pop-stars, who drool over the latest teen sensation sports stars, and fantasise over the latest teen sensation movie stars as they read their weekly copy of their latest pop-culture celeb-watch magazine (whether that's for men or women it's bound to have a pic of Britney or Paris in there somewhere), the holier than thou brigade who delight in practising the exact opposite of what they preach and never ever realise it. They're all exactly the same people as the lonely perverts and that moronic host in that TV show.

ozoneocean
It's not even on the level of dressing up a policewomen as a hooker and putting her on a street corner, since the people they're trying to catch are doing all the work and all she does is wait. In this instance the TV guys and the volunteer group are "grooming" these idiots, guiding them every step of the way, holding there perverted hands (so to speak), and making them into what they need for the show.

Nope. Be it a prostitution or drug sting, the cops most certainly lure the "idiots, guiding them every step of the way".

ozoneocean
The ironic thing is that the people who love this kind of TV, the ones who it's aimed at, are the disgusting, unthinking, gross, slimy underbelly, the very scum between the toes of our great society... The morons who revel in Jerry Springer, the closet paedophiles who watch music videos by the latest teen sensation pop-stars, who drool over the latest teen sensation sports stars, and fantasise over the latest teen sensation movie stars as they read their weekly copy of their latest pop-culture celeb-watch magazine (whether that's for men or women it's bound to have a pic of Britney or Paris in there somewhere), the holier than thou brigade who delight in practising the exact opposite of what they preach and never ever realise it. They're all exactly the same people as the lonely perverts and that moronic host in that TV show.

You're an admin here?

TNTComic said -

>


Actually, I'm not sure about NFL football - I don't know much about it. I suppose that NFL football might happen even if NBC wasn't there to film it. Still, isn't NBC the main source of NFL revenue? Perhaps they would not bother to show up without all that NBC money. I have no idea.

However, it's much easier to tell with TCAP - since NBC runs the event and set it up, it would not happen without them. For instance, NBC has a show called "Heroes" - if NBC didn't pay everyone in the cast and crew, the show would not exist. TCAP is much more like "Heroes" than it is like NFL games. In fact, NBC is the legal owner of this "sting operation."

You seem to think that TCAP is a sting operation run by the police that NBC happens to film. You are not correct in this assumption. The police became involved only after the show had started airing. They were not involved in setting it up. TCAP is an NBC "reality" show that the police show up for. The incriminating evidence is collected entirely by NBC and by Perverted Justice (who get money from NBC).

Again, this is a bit of an aside, and I understand that this distinction might not matter to most people. Personally, I always like to follow the money. Qui Bono? In the real world, it does make a difference.

So as a simple matter of fact, the purpose of "TCAP" is to make a TV show and make money. Any social good or ill it does is a side effect. NBC producers are not hired and fire for fighting crime - they are paid to get ratings.

TCAP has done well in the ratings. If it had done poorly, it would have been cancelled quickly, and the "sting operation" would have come to a sudden end. I think that makes things pretty clear.

Yeah, they're making a TV show. That's pretty clear, since that's the only way we find out about it. But that's a very broad, literal interpretation of the 'intent' of the show. The intent of Heroes is to make a TV show. The intent of The Weakest Link was to make a TV show.

Do you think they have board meetings where someone says, "Let's make a TV show!" And everyone agrees it is an excellent idea?

I think you're dismissing that the intention of the show and its ratings are directly linked. The show is not popular because it is a show. It is popular because people like its intent... to catch people widely regarded as the worst people in the world.

StaceyMontgomery
Actually, I'm not sure about NFL football - I don't know much about it. I suppose that NFL football might happen even if NBC wasn't there to film it. Still, isn't NBC the main source of NFL revenue? Perhaps they would not bother to show up without all that NBC money. I have no idea.

NBC only airs one game per week. FOX and CBS air the rest.

NBC tried creating their own football league, the XFL, and it failed miserably. Proving that it wasn't just football that people were after, it was NFL football. I wonder if this applies to TCAP. Would a sting operation show about drug deals get the same ratings? How about prostitution? I doubt it. I think TCAP gets the ratings it does because viewers hate this particular brand of criminal more than any other.

TnTComic
Nope. Be it a prostitution or drug sting, the cops most certainly lure the "idiots, guiding them every step of the way".

...You missed the intent ;)
In the "lead every step of the way", I was comparing the show to luring someone with a policewoman dressed as a prostitute, and how it wasn't at that level (i.e. the person looking for a prostitute on the street is not guided).

I said the "sting" comparison was stupid because those are classically set up in order to catch some troubling known criminal you haven't been able to get any other way. This is simply and only entrapment for entertainment with a peripheral police involvement at the absolute outside, as is so very, very, excruciatingly, booringly obvious.

TnTComic
You're an admin here?

Exactly, DD has always taken more of a shine to people who don't think along the lines of the production line base level of society.

And I'll repeat: both the pervs, the host and the audience of that show are the same sorts of people. Exactly. If you want to lock up the pervs, lock up the audience as well and we'll all be safer and happier for it. :)

ozoneocean

TnTComic
Nope. Be it a prostitution or drug sting, the cops most certainly lure the "idiots, guiding them every step of the way".

...You missed the intent ;)
In the "lead every step of the way", I was comparing the show to luring someone with a policewoman dressed as a prostitute. I said the "sting" comparison was stupid because those are classically set up in order to catch some troubling known criminal you haven't been able to get any other way. This is simply and only entrapment for entertainment with a peripheral police involvement at the absolute outside, as is so very, very, excruciatingly obvious.

Have you lost your goddamn mind?

They pose as minors.

Cops pose as prostitutes.

ITS THE SAME FUCKING THING

ozoneocean

TnTComic
You're an admin here?

Exactly, DD has always taken more of a shine to people who don't think along the lines of the production line base level of society. ;)

I asked because you said the only people who like the show are pedophiles.

Which made you look like an idiotic asshole. And I want to know how an idiotic asshole gets to be an admin.

Duh! They pose yes, But in ONE case, the men are cruising in their cars, waiting to pay the women for sex, and they can be arrested just for talking to them and handing over the money. In the other, as you somehow miss for some reason, (I'm not sure why, maybe you're just slow like that), what they're doing is posing, true, but they can not be arrested (not that they really are anyway) until they get them to come over to this house and go further (mainly because they don't even know where the hell they are when they're just online. duh). They're guided carefully in that situation just exactly to make that situation happen: not something you have to do with a policewomen in fishnets. :)

No, I didn't say people who like the show are paedophiles, at best I said they're the same sort of people and used the description "closet Paedophiles" in relation to other tastes common to the common sort of trash that enjoy trashy entertainment. Sorry TNT, I didn't realise you might be one of those people... :(

ozoneocean
Duh! They pose yes, But in ONE case, the men are cruising in their cars, waiting topay the women for sex, and they can be arrested just for talking to them and handing over the money. In the other, as you somehow miss for some reason, (I'm not sure why, maybe you're just slow like that), what they're doing is posing, but they can not be arrested (not they they really are anyway) until they get them to come over to this house and go further... They're guided carefully in that situation just exactly to make that situation happen: not something you have to do with a policewomen in fishnets. :)

Please tell me how its different. Both people are soliciting. Both are arrested before they can actually commit the crime. What's the difference?

ozoneocean
No, I didn't say people who like the show are paedophiles, at best I said they're the same sort of people and used the description "closet Paedophiles" in relation to other tastes common to the common sort of trash that enjoy trashy entertainment. Sorry TNT, I didn't realise you might be one of those people... :(

Here's what you said, edited for content.

ozoneocean
the people who love this kind of TV are the disgusting, unthinking, gross, slimy underbelly, the very scum between the toes of our great society... the closet paedophiles... They're all exactly the same people as the lonely perverts in that TV show.

I don't know what country you're from, but saying "you're the same sort of person as a pedophile" is THE SAME AS saying the person is a pedophile.

ozoneocean
Sorry TNT, I didn't realise you might be one of those people... :(

I have a daughter and my wife is pregnant with our second child. I LOVE that these fuckers are being caught before they can get their hands on a kid.

Please tell me why that makes me a closet pedophile, Ozone, because i'm having a hard time understanding where you're coming from here.

The men that show up to the house are showing up under the idea that they're about to have sex with a kid they met on the internet. How are they a victim?

TnTComic
Please tell me how its different. Both people are soliciting. Both are arrested before they can actually commit the crime. What's the difference?

I'm starting to wonder a little TNT, do you read more than the first two words in a sentence? I don't want to be mean, but...

ozoneocean
In the other, as you somehow miss for some reason, (I'm not sure why, maybe you're just slow like that), what they're doing is posing, but they can not be arrested (not they they really are anyway) until they get them to come over to this house and go further... They're guided carefully in that situation just exactly to make that situation happen: not something you have to do with a policewomen in fishnets. :)

Yeah. See? And I also added a bit in there later just to make it even clearer while you must have been writing your reply.

TnTComic
Here's what you said, edited for content.

Yep, edited to try and make yourself sound right, coincidently, much the same tactic as certain TV shows... lol!

Really, this shouldn't be so personal. I really wasn't aware that you were one of those people! Ah, you just never know who you'll offend these days. Ah well, at least I wasn't trying to do it intentionally. :)

ozoneocean
Duh! They pose yes, But in ONE case, the men are cruising in their cars, waiting to pay the women for sex, and they can be arrested just for talking to them and handing over the money. In the other, as you somehow miss for some reason, (I'm not sure why, maybe you're just slow like that), what they're doing is posing, true, but they can not be arrested (not that they really are anyway) until they get them to come over to this house and go further (mainly because they don't even know where the hell they are when they're just online. duh). They're guided carefully in that situation just exactly to make that situation happen: not something you have to do with a policewomen in fishnets. :)

Yes but in some states just talking to a minor about sexual things is against the law, and thats the states that they are doing the show in. Even if they don't show up they can still be arrested. Them showing up and meeting Chris Hansen and going threw that whole thing is just another smack in the face.

Phantom Penguin
Yes but in some states just talking to a minor about sexual things is against the law, and thats the states that they are doing the show in. Even if they don't show up they can still be arrested. Them showing up and meeting Chris Hansen and going threw that whole thing is just another smack in the face.

The point is PP, unlike a pretend prossie, they have to draw the pervert OUT to actually get him to a location where they can catch him. There's quite a lot more time, money and effort involved. That's the point. ;)

ozoneocean
Yep, edited to try and make yourself sound right, coincidently, much the same tactic as certain TV shows... lol!

Really, this shouldn't be so personal. I really wasn't aware that you were one of those people! Ah, you just never know who you'll offend these days. Ah well, at least I wasn't trying to do it intentionally. :)

I don't care if you did it accidentally, you fucking did it and now you're defending it.

Here's what you said:

ozoneocean
The ironic thing is that the people who love this kind of TV,

the ones who it's aimed at,

are the disgusting, unthinking, gross, slimy underbelly, the very scum between the toes of our great society...

The morons who revel in Jerry Springer,

the closet paedophiles who watch music videos by the latest teen sensation pop-stars,

who drool over the latest teen sensation sports stars,

and fantasise over the latest teen sensation movie stars

as they read their weekly copy of their latest pop-culture celeb-watch magazine (whether that's for men or women it's bound to have a pic of Britney or Paris in there somewhere),

the holier than thou brigade who delight in practising the exact opposite of what they preach and never ever realise it.

They're all exactly the same people as the lonely perverts and that moronic host in that TV show.

That's what you said, Ozone. Don't try to hide from it.

And now you're trying to point the finger at ME? You're friggin' awful in this thread, with no excuse. You're flinging around insults and pretending like you're not. When I call you on it, you insult me further.

You're being awful.

ozoneocean
Ah, you just never know who you'll offend these days.

Right. Like i'm being oversensitive here. Nice try, Ozone.

TnTComic
I have a daughter and my wife is pregnant with our second child. I LOVE that these fuckers are being caught before they can get their hands on a kid.

Please tell me why that makes me a closet pedophile, Ozone, because i'm having a hard time understanding where you're coming from here.

The men that show up to the house are showing up under the idea that they're about to have sex with a kid they met on the internet. How are they a victim?

You seem like a good oerson and I expect your kids will never be subjected to the type of violence that creates such abberrant behavior as sex with minors. But you'll excuse me if I think that these poor saps deserve at least me to feel sorry for them that they are so fucked up.

It's a well know fact that a large number of these people are traumatized, having been abused themselves as children, and just lack the moral compass that I'm sure you will instill in your family.

I just think that these guys having been entrapped by NBC and PJ(when no minors have actually been violated), should be led to counciling to rehabilitate them, not humiliate and publicly brande them as perverts on national TV. TV justice is just a modern form of mob justice. I realize in this day, rehabilitation sounds like some naive hippy bullshit, but I believe that anyone can change, given the chance, the dedicatin of institutions and the resources.

But if what you want is a lot of gratutitous self congratulations and vigilante justice then by all means, just remember compassion is a lesson you may want to pass on to your kids as well, and the best way to do that is by example.

bobhhh
I just think that these guys having been entrapped by NBC and PJ(when no minors have actually been violated), should be led to counciling to rehabilitate them, not humiliate and publicly brande them as perverts on national TV. TV justice is just a modern form of mob justice. I realize in this day, rehabilitation sounds like some naive hippy bullshit, but I believe that anyone can change, given the chance, the dedicatin of institutions and the resources.

I have no problem with rehab at all. I just don't think these guys should be treated like they've done nothing wrong.

Oh and another thing, I feel the same way about entrapping guys for soliciting prostitution. Since there wasn't any prostitue, why not take the opportunity to mandate some counciling instead of further complicate things by exposing him to his family and freinds.

Prostutuion is wrong in many ways, but incarceration is not always the right answer for evry fucked up situation.

TnTComic

bobhhh
I just think that these guys having been entrapped by NBC and PJ(when no minors have actually been violated), should be led to counciling to rehabilitate them, not humiliate and publicly brande them as perverts on national TV. TV justice is just a modern form of mob justice. I realize in this day, rehabilitation sounds like some naive hippy bullshit, but I believe that anyone can change, given the chance, the dedicatin of institutions and the resources.

I have no problem with rehab at all. I just don't think these guys should be treated like they've done nothing wrong.

Never said they did nothing wrong. They were attempting to do one of the worst things you can do to a kid. I just think we shouldn't tar and feather them.

bobhhh
Oh and another thing, I feel the same way about entrapping guys for soliciting prostitution. Since there wasn't any prostitue, why not take the opportunity to mandate some counciling instead of further complicate things by exposing him to his family and freinds.

Prostutuion is wrong in many ways, but incarceration is not always the right answer for evry fucked up situation.

Again, I don't disagree.

Are you saying that you would like TCAP if the perps were sent to pysche treatment instead of jail?

TnTComic

bobhhh
Oh and another thing, I feel the same way about entrapping guys for soliciting prostitution. Since there wasn't any prostitue, why not take the opportunity to mandate some counciling instead of further complicate things by exposing him to his family and freinds.

Prostutuion is wrong in many ways, but incarceration is not always the right answer for evry fucked up situation.

Again, I don't disagree.

Are you saying that you would like TCAP if the perps were sent to pysche treatment instead of jail?

Well that would be a start, but still the exposure on National TV is really unnecessary and counterproductive to rehab, and the attitude of PJ really dehumanizes the marks. I think local law enforcement could conduct this privately and then sit the perps down and give them the option of jail and exposure, or a strict, monitored therapy regimen.

Let me just get this straight TNT... So what you're saying is that this and all the rest of it totally describes you?

ozoneocean
The ironic thing is that the people who love this kind of TV, the ones who it's aimed at...

How could I have known that...? I'm not a mind reader, I'm sorry, but the things I say like that aren't directed toward anyone specific. Looks like it was simply a case of coincidence. Again, I apologise. :)

It'd probably be a good idea not to take things personally when they clearly aren't meant that way.

Another interesting notion occurs to me though: The people who most have a problem with homosexuals tend to be a little latently homosexual themselves. At least, that's the belief. By the same token; might the sorts of people who get the most kick out of shows like this be latent paedophiles themselves? Watching themselves be punished by proxy for all those naughty thoughts they themselves feel so guilty for thinking? That's probably exactly why they love it so much. ^_^

Why are you being such an asshole?

Hey, TNTComic. Are you saying you *love* this show? You can't miss an episode?

Not that I have the same logic as Ozone. I just think it's banal trash, and I don't think you want to be seen as someone who is trying to vigourously defend this show because "you think" it's a good show.

C'mon guys. You are baiting each other.

I disagree with ozone's opinion that people that watch the show are the very people that are being arrested, or at the very least, small minded, low life scum. I'm sure the show covers a whole cross-section of different types of people.

But that's all it is - his opinion. He has no facts to back it up, it's just a theory. But he knows this. This forum is laden with opinion, not fact. Until we get any actual experts in sociology we should all just take statements with a grain of salt.

Yep, it's an opinion. :)

Still, there is something to be said about this hysteria and fascination with sexual predators and paedophilia. As I've outlined before: it doesn't have much to do with the real cases and the real problem, which occurs elsewhere and isn't good TV (as people here have agreed); but this is making entertainment out of a sick idea about sick people, and I say that it's for sick people.

Anyway, there's a British Satire program, Brass Eye, that has apparently made a very clever and quite controversial satirical exploration of this pop-culture paedophile obsession. I've not seen it myself unfortunately, so I can't say if it really is any good or not, but I've found some links on YouTube to it: Part 1 , Part 2 , Part 3 .

If you watch them, tell me if they're any good ok? :)
...As soon as my monthly usage limit is up, I'm going to have a look for myself!

- Paedophiles don't deserve punishment. They deserve GUNISHMENT!

- "Last night a 'paedophile' was attacked and burned in his car. But tell me... If your last name was File, would you name your son Peter?" "Oh heavens no." *laugh*

ozoneocean
Yep, it's an opinion. :)

Still, there is something to be said about this hysteria and fascination with sexual predators and pedophilia. As I've outlined before: it doesn't have much to do with the real cases and the real problem, which occurs elsewhere and isn't good TV (as people here have agreed); but this is making entertainment out of a sick idea about sick people, and I say that it's for sick people.

You focus too much on the pedophilia part, I think. There is an even higher-rated dateline shows like "to catch a identity thief". Your theory is flawed, because I watch that one, and I'm not an identity thief.

I am a person that feels good when people that break the law get their come uppin's. Just like when I see a speeding car pass me on the highway, and then I see a cop in close pursuit.

A little part us feels victorious, because WE go out of our way to abide by the law, and we see that the person that broke it didn't get away with it.

Same thing as when people felt glad that Paris Hilton or Martha Stewart went to jail.

Call me crazy, that's the way I see it.

I've watched this tv show a couple times. I honestly feel that it should be labelled correctly.

"To catch a Ebophible" should be more accurate. After all, Ebophiles are people who like teenagers only and wouldn't even look at somebody who was much younger than a teenager as being "sexually attractive".

You couldn't really compare somebody who likes their girls to have tits as compared to somebody who loves a tiny, flat chest of a pre-pusbecent girl, can you?

Usually an man who finds a lot of teenagers sexually attractive also finds a lot of adult women sexually attractive too. I've had some guys adimit to me this was because in a lot of cases, the said teenagers were so well-devloped that at times there was no difference between them and an adult woman save for the factor of age.

So you could say that those men would only go for somebody who was "sexually ready" and was willing to enage into consental sex... and not really go after some 9-year-old girl at all.

of course I'm not defending the notion of underaged sex, as I still believe that to be wrong. I'm simply providing an alterative view on why half of those men on the TV shows are not pedophiles.

If anything else, they may be sex offenders but NOT pedophiles.

I don't know Spang. I myself didn't care too much about the Hilton girl going to jail or the Stewart woman. If someone did care about them going to jail (being happy or sad, or whatever), I'd say there was something wrong. It's a mark of being too obsessed with celebrities, whether your feelings towards those specific are negative or positive, it's still an unhealthy obsession.

And it's the same thing with this pervert TV show, I focus on that aspect because that's the aspect these guys are focussing on. It's a bit of a worry...

And that identity thief show example falls into the same sort of thing... Maybe you don't want to be one yourself but it's not unknown that shows like that are designed for people who want to get a bit of a vicarious thrill- whether as the police doing the catching, or the crafty thief doing the dastardly deeds. It really depends on the focus of the show, but with what I saw of the "predator" thing, it was more about the pervs than the "clever cops", so yeah, I'm more inclined to say that's for pervs. (even if they don't know it)

i watch shows like "cops" becuase i wanted to be a cop...the show doesn't make me want to be a criminal.

subcultured
i watch shows like "cops" becuase i wanted to be a cop...the show doesn't make me want to be a criminal.

It's as I say Sub: It depends on the focus; something like Cops is more 50/50. Also; do you really know yourself that well anyway? Than again, Cops is another really shitty TV show anyway... Sorry man, but there it is. (Again, that's just my opinion)