I come to this with an open mind, a search for opinions, reasons and answers, and not to fight with or flame people.

Why am I here? To express something I've noticed that's bugging me:
People being Biased, sometimes with good reason, other times not so good.

Why though? Why are people biased towards Sprite Comics? Is it because we take Copyrighted characters and warp them to our will? Because there are so many BAD spriters out there?
I'll admit: I'm not happy at ALL with the spriters I see. Sure, I may be no better in some eyes due to my sprites in Alexander and Lucas, but those are old sprites (which are going to get a remake). But, seriously, Sonic edits suck no matter how much work you put into them, they'll always look like Sonic. Tournament comics are done done DEAD and STUPID, stop doing them! Don't rip off other spriters, don't whine if your comic SUCKS!
If you put forth a good effort and it shows, I see no reason for you to get flamed. But if you absolutely suck, and put no effort (like 80% of DD's sprite comics), then get the hell out of here, Spriters don't need people like you disgracing them.

Now, my question is this: Is everyone biased to Spriters because of all the bad ones out there? If so, why doesn't DD just do something about it? Why can't you guys take action and remove those bad spriters, keeping the good ones so people KNOW Spriters are not all horrible artists who can't get a decent story in their comics, and who keep ripping off people, etc etc.

But no, this problem isn't just with Drawers, it's with fellow Spriters, and Anti-Spriters.
People need to CHANGE. People need to OPEN THEIR EYES WHEN SOMEONE TELLS YOU SOMETHING. If someone gives you good criticism, take it, use it, and study it! If someone flames you, get rid of them.
Anti-Spriters should be banned for them, they're directly attacking everyone who sucks at spriting, sometimes even people who are good at it.

Like please people, stop being biased towards everyone. It's a constant problem, it needs to stop.
I don't care if you hate Spriters because we take copyrighted things, everyone does it whether you like it or not. Drawers do it too when they feature a person from another series (Like someone with Edward Elric in their comic as a main character or something, or making a spin-off of a already well known series).

I just want to see things more equal here, where Spriters can get the chance to maybe be Featured, because I know tons who are worthy of it. I want to see people giving spriters the credit they deserve, because many don't know it: But spriting is difficult. I've slaved over more than 100 sprites this weekend alone, all of them scratch sprites (using no base whatsoever). I've slaved over the sheets for Alexander and Lucas. Spriting isn't done over night (if done properly that is), and those are the people who should get recognition, who put time into their Comics, who put time into thinking their stories through, who put time into making their sprites as good as can be.
Hell, even if Drunk Duck made a separate site for Spriters so they can get the same treatment as drawers, that'd be good enough.

I'm not asking for a miracle, I'm asking for compromise, action and people to actually see for once.
So, I'll say it again: Please do not flame me for my views, because that is not my intention with this post. I post this to get a better understanding of people's views, to see some action being taken place here, etc.

Wrong forum.

And we don't dislike all spriters. We just understand that most of the ones who are turning out crap are 12 and think it's cool and will eventually probably grow out of it.

I understand that part, so many of these kids think it's cool and easy, yet it's not. Took me four years to get as good as I am now (don't judge me by my 16bit sprites, I said they're old).
But I'm pointing out the fact people attack the bad ones, and disregard the good ones (More that then the attacking the bad ones).

Respectfully, I honestly don't understand the appeal of sprite comics. Even the good ones that don't make my eyes bleed.

It doesn't help the genre that a lot of spriters come to comic forums and post twenty messages in every forum (usually the wrong forums) requesting info or how-to's or tips that they could easily find by looking at tutorials on sprite sites, or googling, or whatever. Again, no offense intended to you personally.

As for "removing" bad stuff- the great thing about hosting sites like DD is that everyone, no matter their skill level, can post comics. While it might be annoying for some, I'm sure a lot of people (especially younger kids) would never get into webcomics at all if they were discouraged. There are plenty of hosting sites you have to apply for, and that don't allow sprites. And plus, who would judge what's "good"? Would this also apply to poorly drawn comics? MS Paint comics? Stick figures? You get the idea.

Spriters can't get featured because of copywrite issues. Cru (which has been in the top 3 ever since I got here) can't get featured either, for that matter, because it's a WOW comic.

I understand that some sprite comics are well done, and that their creators put a lot of time and effort into trying to make them visually appealing and unique. However, to a lot of people (myself included) they all look the same at first glance.

Again, none of this is meant to offend, but that's my perspective on why people are "biased" against sprites.

Also- for most of you post, I thought you were talking about, like, the drawers you put your socks in instead of people who draw.

Edit: I edited this reply somewhat, sorry if that messes up anyone's replies. :]

Hopefully this doesn't come across as defensive or adminny- I'm writing this from the position of a comic reader and longtime DD member. :]

It isn't DD's job to sort out comics based on how good they are, which is a completely subjective thing and sounds like a horrible job anyway, or try to change users' biases (which sounds impossible). Not everyone likes superhero comics, or black and white comics, or manga style. Sprite comics are hosted here equally (which some free comic hosts don't even do) and have the same chance to get into the top 10, etc as all the other comics. In fact in the past they have been.

Users who are unqualified jerks to other users can get frozen or banned- but we're not omniscient, trouble has to be reported to us. If there are members who are being abusive to other members we can't do anything if we don't know about them. So if someone's a jerk, please tell us. :]

Spriters are just as welcome to participate in the forums, etc as anywhere else on the site. Some of them do but most of them don't. I don't know why more of them don't, unless it's just not the kind of community they're after or they think we will hate them (and never actually find out). Never in my memory has a spriter been attacked or treated poorly in the forums just because they have a sprite comic. If people don't like a spriter it's usually because they're not following the forum's rules somehow, or come in and make a huge post full of flame material because they have a chip on their shoulder. The DD forumgoers are decent people and if more spriters showed up, they'd be welcome.

Most of DD's rules and status quo have developed organically- sprite comics are excluded from the Reviews because people just won't review them; we had a spriter subforum back in the distant past, but it wasn't used much because spriters had a stronger forum elsewhere; people don't get much help finding spritesheets because usually all that's needed is a link to google search; feedback on sprite issues is rare because there are few spriters on the forums.


As for the featuring issue, no comic based around a copyrighted property will be featured, including sprite or fan comics, recolors or not. If a sprite comic had entirely original graphics then it could be featured if it were also a GOOD comic, but they are extremely rare and hard to find among the masses. Additionally, a good set of original sprites will probably look like it came from a video game in the first place- so it can be hard even to figure out if the graphics are fully original or not.


There's a lot of reasons why many traditional comic creators dislike spriters. Different people agree and disagree with those reasons in varying amounts. I don't think it's a matter of hate like you describe. I think in a lot of cases the dislike of sprite comics is completely understandable. The usual dislikes that people have ARE usually a case of the masses ruining things for the few- but a lot of people would argue that wise spriters would realize that they will never be able to distance themselves from that community's reputation and will move toward a less troublesome medium.

I think you'll find that most people don't actually blanket-hate ALL sprite comics or spriters, but because so many of them ARE bad, it's just easier to ignore all of them than wade through them for the 2 or 3 worthwhile ones.


1. Most sprite comics are awful in some sense. The writing may be bad, but a greater 'sin' in many comic readers' books is that sprites are incredibly IN-expressive. You just can't do that much visually with them, you are restricted to the poses, angles, and accessories/visuals in the sprite sheet. Unless the writing is really spectacular, you care a lot about the characters, and a lot of work is done to make the thing visually interesting, they just get very boring to look at (and thus read). It's very much like a talking-heads comic and ultimately very limiting. There is zero individuality in using a sprite comic and whatever you do is going to look very much like something someone else does.

2. Most sprite comics revolve around a property (like Sonic) that a reader doesn't care about.

3. Many sprite comics are also self-insertion or fan comics, where the maker just wants to put themselves into one of their favorite stories, or make new stories for a defunct series. Self-insertion is unprofessional and silly, and fan comics are not always well-received by other fans.

4. Using sprites is seen by some as a 'lazy' alternative to drawing. To these people, even poor or simple drawings are preferable to recolors because at least with own-drawn stuff, the art belongs to you and there is room for growth and improvement. Using sprites may be difficult, but it's often a matter of fiddly copy-paste or recolor work, or figuring out how to get around the barriers intrinsic to using sprites. Spriters also have the problem of already-established characters' "ghosts" residing in their recolors- to the maker, a Ness in a green hat is a new character- but to everyone else, it's just Ness in a green hat. What they know of Ness will always interfere with the guy in the green hat.

5. Most sprite comics are done by young people who have an incomplete grasp of what makes comics 'work.' This compounds a lot of the writing, layout, visual, wish-fulfillment etc problems already mentioned, but also means that their comics are learning spaces and experiments for them- more experienced people can see the problems and see no reason to stick around and read it. Or they may offer advice for improvement, which young and/or new comic makers (regardless of medium) generally do NOT receive well, and in fact sometimes results in abuse toward the one who offered advice. Spriters tend to form very strong groups and get hostile toward anyone they think is criticising them or their friends.

I agree with what skoolmunkee said.
And I'd like to add that even if sprites do take a long time to do, which they may, I have no idea, they look awful. They always do. I'm sorry if this offends anyone, but I think we've grown out of the pixel age now.
Because of this, the writing would have to be pretty darn amazing to make me want to read one.

That pretty much describes me a couple years ago.

Again, I understand COMPLETELY the Copyright issues for Sprite Comics, that's something we all have to live with, especially the Spriters themselves. The featured thing I was talking about was just a simple thing, but I understand your reasons for not doing it (no one wants to lose Drunk Duck due to copyright issues).

But thank you skoolmunkee for pointing all of that out, as much of it I did know already, my main focus is bringing some light to some spriters who do put the time into their comics.

1. Aye, so very true. Spriting is limited horrendously by that. I have noticed some sprite comics trying to step out of that (via Scratch sprites like myself and my "friend" Raikon, and Meta who makes a sprite comic on Fireball.20XL). The expressions are limited, the poses are limited, it's curse or sometimes a gift.

2. Yes, that is something done to death, that is why AL and some other sprite comics don't use actual megaman sprites or sonic sprites (Although AL does use an edited Bass and the original Wily from time to time, guilty as charged), and kudos to them.

3. I'm guilty myself of self-insertions, we've all done it after all, but again, you're right.

4. Sometimes it's lazy, like Recolors, sometimes it's difficult and time consuming, like Customs and Scratches. That is why Recolors are less appealing because everyone can do them, but Customs and especially Scratches are like a drawing, a style and personification (if you will) of the person's skill.

5. Thus the poorly done edits we see everyday in many comics around us, which have given Spriters a bad name.

And to you Hyena, I get the idea and thank you for that view.
Haha, I probably should've used Artists for a better term than Drawer =P, my bad.


You're entitled to your opinion Hippie Van, no hard feelings, because I see what you mean as well XD.
Yes, maybe we have or should grow out of a Pixelated age, but then again, we can't, since technically if we scan something onto our computers it gets turned into pixels, and everything we use in Photoshop, Photoplus, etc, are all the effects of pixels.

For me, it's generally that nearly 90% of all the sprite comics I have seen, rip sprites from sprite sheets, most not even recoloring them, and throwing them on already made backgrounds.
Recoloring a Sonic/Megaman character and calling it your own is terrible. I'm sorry. I used to do it, but then I realized how much better drawing your own characters/story is. Hence why my name seems like a rip off of Sonic, because that's how I used to do things.
I guess it's how some people start off.

I mean, your sprites seem like you made them yourself. Which is good, because originality is good.

To me, fan comics and sprite comics are all the same. Generally, both rip off of characters.
Just like how most people think that ALL comic books deal with superheroes.

And I'll have to agree with what Hippie Van said. We're kind of out of the whole "Pixel" era now, and it's pretty much obselete. Not saying you shouldn't do it, it's just, it probably won't appeal to many people besides other spriters.

A typical sprite comic would be, Sonic and the gang have to stop Eggman. The spriter (or artist, if you want to call them that) will rip sprites from another website that has sprite sheets, open up paint, and take a few backgrounds from the game, put the characters in place, copy them, copy the backgrounds, make some thick lines for panels, and make really skinny and terrible word bubbles (sometimes), and use the line tool to show who's talking, usually whatever color the character is, and use "Comic Sans" font for text. All together takes a half hour, hour tops.

:\

You know, ReaperEX, i understand your situation completely. Spriting is a fun little hobby and a creative outlet for someone who can't draw very well, but people may not always approve what you make. Fortunately, if you're good at it, some other spriters will worship you.

I think most of us will sympathise with the spriters who work hard and feel dragged down by the masses of bad sprite comics. :] And I don't think anyone will disagree that making your own sprites (the ones you are calling scratches?) is difficult and time consuming. The worst part is that if your customs are good, they might end up looking like they were taken from a video game, just one that the reader doesn't know.

You're kind of preaching to the masses here. :] Unfortunately I suspect that getting spriters to come around from within will be pretty difficult if not impossible. It seems that most spriters don't really care what non-spriters may think of them (fairly enough) - it's the minority, like you, who are trying to earn wider recognition that feel the pains of being associated with most sprite comics.

There are a few sprite comics that have made it big - Diesel Sweeties, 8 Bit Theater (though not original art, very well done), Kid Radd, what else? The hand-drawn equivalent would be copy-paste comics, which are maybe more prevalent than some might think- they're just harder to spot.

Is there a spriter site with good advice, or how to avoid the sprite comic pitfalls? Maybe there is a DD tutorial about how to make a distinctive/different sprite comic? If there was a good one I'd mention it in a newspost.

Yep. That's it.

You've answered your own question.

There are so many bad sprite comic makers that I can't stand any of them. Many of them also happen to be very young. Doesn't help your cause much.

I also hate them because of their number. There are so many of them that we will NEVER get rid of them unless we wipe the internet.

The third reason is that they break copyright laws yet no one is doing anything about it.

I know there's a "Stop making bad sprites!" tutorial here. But I think as far as the basic design elements and whatnot, ReaperEx is a bit beyond that. (BTW- thank Gawd you're not one of those folks making tiny-ass sprite comics that I can't see what's going on or read properly.)

My advice to you: If you want to make a good comic, focus on the writing. Because sprite art tends to be limiting, as we've all said here, you've got to try extra hard to stand out and create a product that draws people in immediately. Study traditional comics' story telling devices, dialogue, pacing, etc. Create original stories and memorable characters that people will find compelling. Avoid the tropes and cliches of other sprite comics. It's not your fault that you're automatically delegated to the "Sprite Comic Ghetto"- a lot of traditional artists find that their style or subject matter carries a stigma as well; but that doesn't mean you have to follow that mold, and it's still possible to make a comic that appeals to people outside of that niche.

Another big problem with sprite comics is writing related. Some of the others have mentioned that you should focus more on the writing due to the limitations of sprites, which is a good point, but the spriters who've realised this tend to overcompensate, and you end up with a gigantic wall of text that describes everything in ridiculously fine detail.



When WILL you Stop BETRAYING Everyone?

skoolmunkee pretty much sums it all up but i do would like to add one thing.

A quick search for "Sonic" gives me 358 comic titles!
( And then i haven't even made a search for "megaman" or "pokemon" )

The few good sprite comics out there are DROWNING.

Let me make this clear: all sprite comics are bad because most sprite comics are bad. In a way, sprite comics are like reality television; they're cheap to make and you don't need to put in a lot of effort to create the final product. That's why the majority of comics on this site (and on the internet in general) are sprite comics.

However, unlike reality TV, the creators of sprite comics never have a hook that actually makes readers want to view their comics. This is an example of stupid people think alike. I can guarantee you that if you look at ten different sprite comics on this site, at least nine of them will seem to be written by the same person.

As said before, it really doesn't help their cause that most "spriters" on the forums can't spell to save their lives and consistently post in the wrong forums everyday, all the time.

Now, I know the OP is trying to mean well seeing how he is actually aware of the fact that most sprite comics are terrible. However, there are just too many bad sprite comics out there. Is it prejudice? Probably, but with obvious reason.

Megaman has 151.
Pokemon also has 358.

For a grand total of, 867.

Wow.

American007 is a sprite comic here on Drunkduck that I think is actually pretty good. I've only read a few of the pages (so I'm not judging writing) but it looks visually pretty good.

I wouldn't even mind if spriters used Sonic, or Megaman, or whatever. It's just the fact that it looks like they put half-assed effort into it. Paint is not, nor never will it ever be a good comic making program. I've seen some amazing stuff done with it (someone made the Mona Lisa), but that's beside the point.

If you're doing a sprite comic, please try to get a decent program, and take your time on it.

No, because:

1. WALL OF TEXT

2. That one sprite, the red hedgehog guy, is really, really, hideous.

3. The constant close ups are equally hideous.

4. What the hell is going on?

5. *eyes bleed*

Most people don't like sprite comics because they're not very good.

Jesuschrist American007 is a complete mess. Is it so much to ask that you edit a sprite at it's actual resoloution? It's like the bottom half's housebricks and the top part's lego.

Ok, that one's like looking at Wolfenstein 3D. I keep looking for the "fire" button so I can shoot the enemies before they get me.

There's been ONE sprite comic that I liked and it was mostly silly 2-3 panel strips done by a friend. Basically he chose a group of friends from a chatroom and came up with weird adventuresfor them and each one of them was presented as an 8bit sprite (I for example, since I'm into Godzilla, was "sprited" as the bubble bobble dragon). In that sense it was funny and for friends only.

Other than that I have not seen anything that would attract me in any fashion.
There are "clipart" comics (like Wondermark or Get Your War On) that can be funny but that's not sprite comics.

Can't say I'm fond of 3d comics either.

Overall: I tend not to rag on sprite comics (as I think any kind of creativity is positive even if the results aren't that great) but I tend not to read them either.

I'm so glad to see so many understanding people XD, really.



Well, my comic (Alexander and Lucas) does take a different turn for sprite comics, paying more attention to a Teenage life (with some twists) and the drama that goes on in them. I've been praised by many of my friends for a very original comic.
Still, thank you for your kind words =D.



I don't see how I'm betraying anyone. I'm stating a point about something I've noticed, aiming to get the views, reasons and answers from everyone around. If I'm betraying someone (I think you mean the spriters), well then whatever. I can deal with that and certainly they'll get over it.



Yes, you are right about all of that. My main point would be the good sprite comics around that we rarely see nowadays because we're being flooded by all of these noobs.

You keep saying 'good sprites' and never really mentioning what ones you mean, recommend some please

And also i believe pixel art can be downright amazing in the hands of a skilled designer:

Alright, you asked and you shall receive:



That's an example of mine and a friend's sprites, the top ones with just a single color to them are the Scratch sprites I've been mentioning, and the bottom ones are mere examples of Custom sprites.

Now, good sprites shouldn't look exactly like these of course, after all like all art, it's a representation of the "artists" skill. This is the representation of mine and my friend's skill. There are many more, to name a few:
Raikon, KrimBlade, DisasterDX, NightHawk41, MegaGreg, and many others.

Those look really good.

The pixal comic that I like is called "Power Rings" it's a Sonic comic and isn't on this site. If I think a sprite comic is good I'll read it, but I just haven't found one here yet. Anyway, what sort of skill do you get from making sprites? Each time I draw my comic, I become a better artist and that is something I will keep throughout my life. Someone who makes sprites will probably find they will never use that skill again. I think that all the time and effort that goes into making custom sprites would be better spent learning how to draw.

Well, I know a few skills that deals with both:
- Color Coordination (For clothing, hair, etc.)
- Proportions (Body posture and structure) (Mainly for drawing and scratch sprites)
- Story Writing (obviously a must for any comic no matter what)

I probably missed a few, but some skills that go with Drawing can also be applied to Spriting as well, it's still an Art, while Copyright Infringed and frowned upon.

yeah, but not to the same extent, not at all.

Obviously not when Spriting and Drawing are completely different things, but those are still some skills you pick up from both.