Ok, god damnit, i'm not sure if this was in another forumn post or not,
but i don't feel like going there and talking.
Lets start a new post about how often this is getting annoying.

Is it a general rule, that every comic strip MUST break the fourth wall?!

I'm sorry, but, what the hell?

Why does every freaking comic strip break the wall?!?!
It's not that funny when you do it, and those who do it USUALLY do it multiple times! STOP IT!!!! It's extremely annoying. And thats why people do it, for the funnies.
(I am, of course, only talking about the comics that are funny or usually only 4-8 panels and such, not the serious stories ones)

I mean come on, is it really that funny to mention "readers" or speech bubbles?
Oh mah gawd, how did you pernounce that /, or, Our speech bubbles are a different size today.
Shut up.
SOMETIMES that is funny if you do it right, AND ONLY ONCE IN A WHILE.
Consistently mentioning the "comic" is dumb and not funny.
They just seem as they are fillers, because people can't think of anything relating to the comic, so lets relate to the reader!
Shut up Dane Cook and please do something else. Make a COMIC, Jesus, stop mentioning people outside of the fourth wall. It isn't as funny as you think it is when you do the same damn joke 20 times. DO IT ONCE THEN STOP IT.
A couple times are fine sometimes, but get back into the comic. I'm reading the comic for THE COMIC, not for the characters in it to know i exist, because i really don't care, and really, neither do you. Comon guys, be funnier or go on with your story.

Dont break the fourth wall.

Speak up your idea's on the fourth wall. Don't be afraid, we all know you've broken it.

You're reading the wrong comics.

None I read (yes, I am talking about the "strips" ) break the fourth wall. It seems like you read a lot of comics you don't like. Lol. How are you finding these things? Bad luck?

(Granted, I would say that the majority of webcomics are crap and do a whole lot of stupid things. That's why a lot of people hate webcomics in general.)

:P
Well i don't usually read the story ones.
And yes most of them do suck, but the cartoon ones
that are funny and drawn ok break it. And that bugs me

Ha. The page I'm inking right now breaks the fourth wall:

Character 1: "What? You don't know? Come on- you know everything else!"
Character 2: "Nah. Just enough to advance the plot/"
Character 1: "Huh?"
Character 2: "Oh, sorry. Kinda an inside joke."

Oops.

In Living With Insanity, I was careful to keep myself from breaking the fourth wall. Once or twice it appears that I have, but usually it's the character talking to themselves or something along those lines.

There was one strip before Alice came in where it really did look like the fourth wall was being broken and the main character was talking to the reader. But I actually do rant to myself sometimes, which is what's being done, so it doesn't really count, I guess.

I've always seen fourth wall breaking as a cheap way to get laughs and a sign that the author has no clue what they're doing. Of course there are some good authors who do it occasionally (Ryan Sohmer of Least I Could Do) but most of the ones out there think fourth wall breaking equals automatic funny. Sort of like the way Scott Kurtz thinks farts equal automatic funny.

Yeah, I'm afraid that it probably is laziness and lack of finding a joke. It's my opinion that strips are much harder to write than story comics anyway because they do require more conciseness and a punchline with every update. I have to admire professionals who write "funnies." It is tough. (Case in point, my story comic is nearing 700 pages. My strip has only 17 so far and updates far less frequently -- not for artistic difficulties but writer's block.)

So, I'm guessing it has to do with a writing block and trying to adhere to an update schedule. It's like a standup comic dying on stage will just say the name of the town he's in for a quick cheer. Yeah, it's cheap. I'd rather they miss an update than upload a sup-par strip.

Exactly DMH. They do it for a cheap joke that can only be done right, by certain people.
And sometimes laziness can be ok if you cant think of a joke (SOMETIMES), rather than relying on the fourth wall to entertain.

I only break the 4th wall when I try to put up one of those "joke" pages (my stuff is 90% serious).

I think it just depends on the skills of the author. A truly talented writer could probably find a way to make breaking the fourth wall entertaining because talented writers are good a that sort of thing. On the other hand, somebody who breaks the fourth wall out of sheer laziness is going to do it poorly, because that's what lazy writers do.

Personally, I tend to avoid it (except in VERY indirect ways) just because I have trouble writing for characters who somehow know their world isn't "real"

Thanks, you just reminded me of a "4th wall breaking" project that I forgot to list. I don't remember what was going to happen exactly, but it featured a character that started to write itself against the decisions of the creator and thus another character was sent into the book to sway his mind to return to the path... by showing him future uninked pages. Was going to be a longer story more along the lines of what Alan Moore or Grant Morrison did with the 4th wall and not a gag strip.

Breaking the fourth wall really only is funny when it's meant as a joke. Remember once reading a comic strip where one of the characters literally climbed out of their frame - that was funny, because it only happened once for the sheer amusement. Comics where the characters are constantly aware of the fact that they are just that; comic characters, aren't very funny, because it gets a bit one-sided when the people in it seem to know you're there.


Personally, I think one good way that breaking the fourth wall can be applied to a comic, is if it's done in a "Behind the Scenes" sort of way (during which the characters are consciously aware that they're the cast of preplanned story with someone telling them what to do). Know the webcomic VG Cats had a two-part 'interview' with the cast, during which they were aware of the fact that they were being watched (or read) by someone). What does irk me a bit are those comics where one of the characters constantly insist on speaking directly to the reader when the story is at a high peak of interest is just annoying. Pretty sure a few people here disagree with that train of thought, but that's my two coins on the matter.

Breaking the fourth wall doesn't bother me, but I don't read too many comics that have ever done it. (Also, it wouldn't be well-applied to either of my comics, though in some cases it could be clever. I'm not daring, though; I never was that "clever".)

Irks me a bit more when it happens in actual manga (also a larger occurrence lately e_e), unless it was already outlandishly funny.

i think it's allright when it's creative. i mean like anything else, it can be rethought and freshened up, or become a moldy cliche.
Locoma wrote a great story that broke the 4th wall, Last Action Hero was cool in that you find out what happens when an action movie hero enters the real world and finds out movie logic doesnt apply anymore. that's cool stuff. but i guess not really what you're talking about.

I don't break the fourth wall, never plan to.

I think breaking the 4th wall is great! I do it in my batman comic here: http://www.drunkduck.com/Batman_and_Robin_Kicking_Names_and__Taking_ass/index.php?p=463819

comics are an interactive medium, and i like to play with that idea. nothing wrong with breaking the 4th wall at all IMO.

I think the closest I've ever come to breaking the fourth wall is this strip, and my latest update may be conceived as doing the same based upon the camera angle. But in general I keep everyone within the walls.

I have only ever come across one comic that I thought handled the fourth wall issue well. Nearly every other instance seemed to be something of a ham-fisted attempt at meta-humor, but this one was actually worked into the story in a very interesting way, to the point that fourth wall awareness became a rather important plot point.

The comic is called 1/0, and you can find it here if you're interested in reading it.
http://www.undefined.net/1/0/

Well, my comic is supposed to be more on the serious side. But I have never broken the fourth wall. I honestly am now sure how you would go about doing that seriously.
I think it's meant more as a comedic effect.

If I were to do it, I think I'd have either Archound or Draycho do it, their personalities seem to fit with that kind of thing more.

It's like Deadpool, he KNOWS he's a comic book character, and that's what's so amazing about it.

Some comics can pull it off, some can't.

That's really amusing.-I love it.

Ok, seriously dude. Maybe you just need to stop reading webcomics!

I've read two threads that you've started in the past few days and all they've been is complaints about things I find minor.

If you don't like what the comics or artists are doing, maybe you should post a comment about how you feel on their webcomics.

I don't wanna come across like I'm flaming you, but if all you're gonna do is post the negative stuff you dislike about webcomics, people may have a tendancy to judge your comic a little more harshly.

I'm all for criticism, but we're talking about webcomics. It is a medium that is available to all people of varying skill sets. You have to take the good with the bad.

You may feel like breaking the 4th wall constantly is annoying, but some people might really enjoy it.

Heck, I did a whole chapter where the characters try to find the 4th wall. It was just a filler comic, but I enjoyed writing it.

I kind of agree with Zaymac. You've been doing an awful lot of complaining about webcomics lately. Is there anything about them that you DO like?

I think Keneticlopx makes excellent thought provoking posts! Complaints or not. Plus the only ones getting offended are the one's likely constantly doing what he's annoyed with, an he does have a point regardless to whether you rely on 4th wall jokes or throw a pity party every comic post.

Anyhows 'm okay with 4th wall jokes in moderation, I think the big point of them is 'surprise!' rather than an ongoing gimmick.
I actually hate hate hate story comics that do it.(thankfully they hardly ever do) it jolts me out of the enthrallment in the story-i often don't want to go back.

I don't mind it in story comics, but if it's a "serious" story, I prefer when there are rules as to when the 4th wall gets broken. For example, in dream sequences, or only a certain character does it, or in an stand-alone "episode" that doesn't effect the story's universe, etc.

I have little cartoony versions of my characters that hang out around titles and comment outside of the story cannon -- often about the title, which, I guess, is a fourth wall breaker. While my story can get pretty serious, I don't think they cause any jolt or break it aside from the punctuation between chapters that I intended. They aren't part of the story and are almost separate characters altogether. (I think I'm too much of a Henson fan. *Nods to Statler and Waldorf.*)

The weird thing is until this moment, I never thought of it as "fourth wall breaking" but just a regular practice/tradition with my chapters... (In fact, I hate when I can't come up with a gimmick for a title. I feel it loses something without it.)


I'd say that for true "fourth wall breaking" it has to be a fairly light tone story -- and should have an established precedent. If a character breaks the fourth wall regularly, it's part of the gimmick (like Will in Fresh Prince of Bel Air).

Also, people shouldn't confuse an aside with breaking the fourth wall. An aside is a character talking to himself or even looking at "the camera." Breaking the wall would be addressing readers, mentioning being in a comic or on a computer (unless in a subtle/philosophical way -- 4th wall bending), or doing anything else that says "this isn't real."

Btw, Keneticlopx, have you seen this site? It contains an interesting breakdown of all the gimmicks in all kinds of media (including webcomics) and addresses the pet peeves you've mentioned along with a ton of others that will probably eventually start bugging you if you read enough webcomics.

I was going to post something. But apparently I didn't.
I've never broken the fourth wall either

Story comics that do it on ocassion for comedic effect are good. Such as Deadpool, and how he realizes that he's IN a comic book. I love that kinda stuff. But if the whole comic is based on that, well, it's not that awesome.
So actually, I do agree with you Skullbie :D

In Bad Attitude the main character got cursed into sensing the fourth wall. No one else is aware of its existence and the character has only a vague idea of what it really means. I enjoyed it. Quite possibly some few readers enjoyed it as well. But you never know.

Most of us cartoon for our own enjoyment and to share something we hope is entertaining for like-minded readers. I would never tell a fellow cartoonist not to do something. If I don't like it, I just stop reading it. Everyone is free to succeed or fail as they will. That's the beauty of webcomics. Heck now that I think about it I feel inspired to create a new webcomic in which everyone, and their little doggie, too, messes around with the fourth wall concept. Thanks for the inspiration!

My favorite paperback comic that breaks the 4th wall a lot is Dead Pool. No matter how serious a comic he can still break the 4th wall. Since everyone just thinks he's insane no one wonders what the heck he's talking about.

I'm not much of a comic strip reader so I don't see it happen often. The most I ever break the 4th wall is by having characters coming out of the panels. Which I tend to enjoy doing a lot.

But they are never aware of it or the fact that they are comic characters. I don't see my own comic breaking the 4th wall.

I'm actually trying to think of a comic on DD where I read the 4th wall get broken. Outside of fillers it's just really rare in story comics.

i liked "saved by the bell" and "the fresh prince" and both of these tv series break the 4th wall quite often and they are both serious and funny....

in comics, it depends on what kind of comics we're talking about.
strips can work breaking the wall if used sparingly.
comedy stories...same thing. is a quick sight gag or a nod at the story or subject matter...then it works well.
serious stories....no. whether it is an action or horror or romance or dramatic story.....breaking that immersion just cheapens the story a bit.

Usually it sucks, every now and then I come across good fourth wall humour.

I find it annoying when it's done poorly because all the charecter the comic has is instantly destroyed, it's not easy to break the fourth wall without doing this so if a comic does it frequently and poorly then it feels like their is no charecter.

Here is a brilliant example of a good fourth wall break in.

http://www.chainbear.com/?issue=193

EDIT: Stuff was said to Zaymac that was bad and I didn't know there was an ALL AGES section of forumns.
My Bad.
I just didnt like the way he said it and it made me say those bad things.
I wont apologize but i will take back those naughty things i said.
He said it with an, I like those things, and all my stuff is negative.
THAT is what bugged me because all my stuff isn't negative. People call me a negative person all the time and it makes me mad, because i am not a mean person unless people are mean to me, which, most people are