I honestly think rating by total would be a godsend instead of that blasted average. This would help for two reasons. #1) Idiots who vote low just to spite others are still helping the comic with their vote. #2) Seniority would play a bigger role. People who don't quit the comic have a better chance of crawling up the list. And those who slack and don't make as many strips will slowly fall down the list.

What do you think?

Since it's unlikely that DD will host comics again, the voting may be a moot point.

Well, there is a chance that DD will host comics again provided enough people help out with the coding...although it's still an "if."

However, if DD were to come back, I personally rather not have that. One of the things I liked about the toplist before was that it wasn't static. Yes yes, there were certain comics that consistently appeared on the list but it was a system that allowed new comics as well to reach the top spots. The list did change everyday.

You're more likely to get a static list when you calculate by total. If the list is occupied by comics with a total in the hundreds for example, then for a new comic to get on the list, they would have to gather that many votes at a faster rate. Otherwise, it's the people who have seniority (in other words, people who came here first) that will be occupying the spots on the toplist.

.: Black Kitty :.

I personally didn't like the averages myself. There were many comics in the top spots that undoubtebly shouldn't have been. I don't have many other options in my head, but maybe we could try a new system?

The way I'm thinking, it'd be all that much more of an honor to be one of the top comics, since it'd be so hard.

skoolmunkee, why are you so pessimistic? Cheer up! :D

This would make the people who joined DD first have too much of an advantage. It would alienate new-comers.

I also liked the average system. I'm someone who works at a slow progress, and I don't always have the means to update my art onto the internet. (these are valid excuses I say!) I honestly don't think it's fair to say that people who don't update all the time don't have the right to be on the top whatever#. I thought the average system was a good way to get all kinds of comics on the top whatever#. Yes, some comics may not have deserved to be up there, but I guess that's in the eye of the beholder. Obviously someone liked the comic enough to give it a good rating, so they thought it deserved to be up on the top whatever#. What was good about DD was the decay system they also had, so people who did update more often did show up on the top numbers more often. So those who are more dedicated than some of us *coffmecoff* did get the "advertisement" they may (or may not) have deserved.

well, what if there were more lists?

there could be a drop-down menu type thing that says

"list by comics less that 100 days old.
...50 days old."

and so forth.

and then it would list it by the total?

Sonata brings up a vaild point. If the Duck comes back in a similar incarnation, then a drop down menu wouldn' be a bad idea at all.. everyone is happy.

I have never been a fan of the vote system on DrunkDuck as a whole. I think comments are enough, and besides, I rarely saw anything but a 5 or a 1 on any given page I went to. I also saw many with 5’s that were obviously people just voting high for their friends comics. I love the commenting but think the ratings system needs to go away.

Maybe a ten options thing would work better. 5 kind of means it was perfect but not all comics are perfect. Maybe have an option to give some more detailed ratings. Example:

Artwork (On a scale of 1 to 10, how good is the art?)
Genre (How true is this to it's genre. Eg. for humour, how funny?)
Story (Overall, is it a good story that makes you want to read it, or does it seem like the author's not even trying?)
Originality (Is it an original piece or just a remake of an overdone plot?)

You can change these later. Also:

Overall rating (Average of everyone's overall rating of the comic)
Page rating (Average of what everyone' rated the pages)

I think some sort of better way of voting needs to be established, where people who are higher up in the community have a higher power with their votes, say a new person votes a 5 on a comic, it wouldn't account for as much as say an older person because we know we can trust the older persons opinion more than the new person because they are more experienced, or make it so you have to have a comic to vote on someone else's comic, that way you know your getting your peers and the people you respects comments and votes more than just random people

You probably aren't part of the beta testing. There's a whole "Karma" section that's being developed. It will be associated with how much someone posts, how often they comment ... and other things I forget now ... and that will alter the strength of their vote.

Well, thats awesome! :D lol

Those who don't learn from history are indeed doomed to repeat it.

The 'karma' system that was in place before DD went kaboom was the worst idea I ever saw on the site. It basically rewards the people who spam/talk/kiss-ass the most. I don't know about you, but the sort of people that talk the most aren't the type of people I want with all the power over my score.

This is true, i would want the best comic artists to have the most power over my comics rating to be honest.

It's not the same as the system in place before.

Without having completely discussed this with Volte6, it looks like it will weight the votes based on:

Comments Made
I'm assuming that's how many comments you make anywhere on Drunk Duck (excluding the forum)

Comments Muted
This is either how many times you get muted, or how many times you mute comics on your own site. I'm thinking it's the former, but not sure.

Comments Reported
Again, I think this is how many times someone reports your comment, not how many times you report a comment.

Comments Erased
I think this is how many times your coments are erased (by the admins).
_________

I also think that we're going to require accounts to comment. Which I don't like, but with the spambots that were attacking us last time it might be our only choice.

This is where the problem comes in.

1. The people who comment most probably do so on a set of comics they read, this would skew it so that the more popular comics with powerful commenters stay at the top.

2. Just because someone comments a lot doesn't mean they deserve to have more pull. The system assumes that if you comment a lot then you are contributing, but surely someone who votes responsibly on 5 or 10 comics a week holds more worth than a person who votes "5 lol" on every comic on the list, every day.

3. As a voter (and one who actually considers their votes) I am actively discouraged from voting under this system. I don't comment often, as I like to have something to actually say when I do, and if my vote isn't going to count for as much as the rabid fans of a comic or someone who is less... considered... in their voting, then I don't have much incentive to bother. I'm sure this would be the case for many more 'casual' commenters.

Here we go again...

There is no system that would satisfy your needs. Not an automated system that is. Look at what we have:

Top Lists:
Concept: People vote for it and the comic with the most votes goes to the top of the list.

Problem: This creates a stagnant list, where the most popular comics go to the top.

Drunk Duck's Old System
Concept: Anonymous voting on a rating system 1-5. Decay factor for new updates that cause a comic to slide down the list every day it doesn't update again.

Problem: Sniping, promoting and spambots. Scores overinflated, scores bombed out of vengeance/stupidity.

Drunk Duck's New System
Concept: Signed in voting on a rating system of 1-5. Decay factor for new updates that cause the comic to slide down the list every day. Weighted voting for those that participate most often.

Problem: promoting. Scores will still be overinflated. Jealousy: people who don't comment as much as others think they're underappreciated, or that those that comment a lot don't have good comments.

______________

There is no system that wins. The current idea is to keep a constantly updating list AND minimize the effect of snipers AND to keep spambots out AND create an incentive to be more involved with other comics.

There are no systems that work 100%, and none that work any better than anything Volte6 has put together.

And it's only for the main list. Beyond that it doesn't even matter.

______________



Why? It isn't that your vote doesn't count, just that there are going to be members who get a little more credit (or have a little less credit) than you, based on participation.

Look, I know my "karmic" rating is going to be much less than quite a few DD members here. Does that mean I won't give someone a score when I read their comic? No. I know from my own experience, that casual comments and ratings are appreciated by me. Do I care how I influence their place on the list? Why should I?

The only adjustments I'd make to try to satify your worries here are:

1. Maybe a character count. Comments with less than X characters aren't included in the Karmic calculation. That would weed out the "ROFL-5" comments.

2. Maybe a diversity component in the equation so that the number of comments is balanced with the number of comics they visit. That way it isn't for a rabid fan of Comic X so much as a DD member that reads a lot of comics.

Voting doesn't even mean anything yet and already it's assumed massive importance!!!!
:D

The whole voting thing sort of tires me a bit... I'd rather just focus on commenting, that was the fun of DD.
And if you thought someone's work was bellow their usual standard, you could always offer constructive citisism. I was starting to enjoy doing that.

Anyway, if you miss commenting and voting, you can do some of it at my lovely beta testing Drunk Duck comic here: http://www.drunkduck.com/Pinky_TA!

I'm not gonna read this whole thread, because i can see where it's going... For the record, there is no current system in place for any of this... we HAVE karma, but it's effect hasn't been determined. It may be an interesting statistic to help admins make decisions, or it may affect vote weighting.

So relax, no big decisions have been made in that regard... i have enough to worry about just getting the core up and running before I start worrying about solving the #1 dispute amongst DrunkDuckers.

Thanks Volte6. Sorry if I jumped the gun.

This doesn't sound too bad. An overall rating would be all right

Not going crazy here, just pointing out my view of the situation as well as some things that were discussed in chat when the system came in last time.

But hey, if you're not going to change things then that's your guys-in-charge perogative.

Well, I think that any system is going to have its problems, just as Ronson said -- no matter what, there's always going to be people who are willing to walk through three feet of snow in barbed wire shoes for 3 miles to get to the internet just to vote bad on someone they don't like's comics. Really the only system that would work would be totally random listings of "feature" comics with rotation so everyone gets their turn on the front page, but that's really hard to implement when there's a huge influx of comics (especially with a server migration!); so generally I'm of the opinion that any system would work, but would have its flaws, so we just have to take the bad voters in stride and just keep churnin' out the awesome comics!

DD isn't even fully back yet, and the debate over the raiting system has already begun....

I feel all at home and warm and fuzzy.

~the former Karlinn Y.

Xergrim didn't you say you could make me a few sprites?

.: trigun69 :.

This isn't really a complaint so much as an observation...there's more than one way to snipe someone out. One, there's the obvious spiteful "low rating", but also, when someone mutes a comment made just because they're being oversensitive. It bothers me that some of the developing artists can't take critique, and will end up influencing the "karmic rating" of the individual that tried to help them.

...Okay, so it's a little bit of a complaint.